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Talk:The Great British Bake Off series 5

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Luis's death

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There's been an edit war for the past few days, with editors adding and removing Luis's death. Starting discussion.

I think it should be included. Season 1 has a similar entry for Withers. Readers are interested in what becomes of the contestants after the show. Schazjmd (talk) 17:36, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's unreasonable to include it. The one time I reverted the addition was because it was unsourced. More recently, it was added back with a reliable source, which is fine. Armadillopteryx 17:52, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you two.(Thank you Armadillo for checking recent addition.there were so many reverts)His death should be included.As I have been added edits,this is information included in other reality show.I think this article should follow the examples.Luis Troyano's death was the first death in contestants in this show.His death means,there will be no more future appearance on The Great Christmas Bake Off or The Great Festive Bake Off.No farther post-show careers.-- Paperworkorange (talk) 18:12, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Drmargi:, we've been discussing, please add your comments. Schazjmd (talk) 18:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"We did it somewhere else" is not a reason to do it here. This has been a long-standing issue with articles of this type: their topic is the competition, not the competitors, and this is not a suitable place to keep data on the competitors indefinitely post hoc. Post-career updates of a short-term nature that are directly related to the show, such as who got a a cookbook or column, are a direct outcome of the competition, and it's perfectly reasonable to add them. One the other hand, changes in biographical data isn't, and it's been established that these data don't go in the competition articles elsewhere. These data are selective in nature: I don't see anyone including when Martha Collison was married and the competitors all made her a wedding cake, for example. This buisiness of updating name changes, live events, location changes, etc. is largely well-established as not being related to the subject of the article, the the competition, and being far too subjective to be encyclopedic. This is not a fan site. It's an article about the fifth season of GBBO, what happend during it, and the events consequent to it. That's all. I love Luis Troyano as much as anyone does and am saddened by his death, but note of it doesn't go in this article, which is not about him, particularly marked with a symbol that links his death to a specific religious doctrine he may or may not have practiced. (See also the discussions regarding restraurant outcomes long after Gordon Ramsay's visits on his shows. They're not included either.) ----Dr.Margi ✉ 18:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm a little confused that you're arguing both that it doesn't matter that it was done elsewhere and that it's been decided against elsewhere. Anyway, I agree that the death symbol is inappropriate, but I think the single sourced sentence in the post-career section where his book is mentioned is WP:DUE and appropriate. Nobody has proposed "updating name changes, live events, location changes, etc". Death is permanent, final, and a significant event that capstones his career after the show. Schazjmd (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not arguing both sides, just responding to a comment upthread. My point is clear: Luis's death, however sad, is unrelated to GBBO series 5. It is a major life event, albeit the last one, and as such, does not belong in the article. Moreover, inclusion opens the door to other such events. This is not a fan page; it's an encyclopedia. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 22:58, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I honestly don't care much either way, but I don't think it's WP:UNDUE to add a single sourced sentence about the death of a contestant. This is obviously relevant and of interest to readers of the page. Such concise mentions are common on the pages of reality series, for example at RuPaul's Drag Race (season 8) and American Idol (season 1). Going into a detailed tangent would be inappropriate, sure. But one sentence? Nah. Armadillopteryx 23:20, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:UNDUE isn't the issue. It's a matter of adding content not related to the topic of the article. It's WP:FANCRUFT. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 01:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Drmargi: Whatever the case, please stop your edit-warring. I'll request page protection, but please stop any more reverts. Consider this a 3RR warning. Hzh (talk) 23:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As for the edit, I have no strong opinion either way. I would avoid too much detail on a person's biography in a reality show, but it is too small an edit to be considered FANCRUFT, which in any case is just an essay and not any kind of rule. I'd rather it not being mentioned (everyone will die some time, and I don't see any point in a page littered with mentions of deaths in years to come), but I'm not sure if it is a big enough issue to fight over. Hzh (talk) 23:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Noted; however, the IP is a long-term vandal who is the reason the protections this page already has, and their edits are treated as vandalism. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 02:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Drmargi: I'd just like to comment that, apart from you, everyone who participated in this discussion either supports inclusion of this fact or is indifferent; it would seem to me that consensus is therefore in favor of inclusion. I am puzzled that you continue to remove the sentence and imply in the edit summary that this discussion provides justification for doing so. Pinging Schazjmd, Paperworkorange and Hzh as others who have contributed, in case I have misunderstood something. Armadillopteryx 01:52, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Drmargi has been reverting multiple editors adding the single sourced sentence for nearly two months, despite failing to get consensus on the Talk page. I've stopped watching the article. Schazjmd (talk) 01:58, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to explain to Drmargi why the information is needed as"information about show".She doesn't read my explanation.I am too stressed out.I kept ask help from help desk,told I should not revert until we reach consensus. but again,I'm so stressed out. - Paperworkorange (talk) 05:24, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Given that it is something that has been discussed, and it is not an edit that goes against Wikipedia policy or guideline, one person cannot override the opinion of multiple editors. If there is significant support for your edit, then you and others can simply revert Drmargi's edits. She would fall foul of 3RR or disruptive editing if no one else supports her (she may face a block or topic ban). However, if there is support for her and the reverts continue, then you can start a RfC to gain a wider consensus or seek help from dispute resolution. Hzh (talk) 14:04, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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