Talk:The Chosen (Potok novel)

Untitled

There have been allegations that Potok's portrayal of Hasidism in this work was quite unfair and reflected an anti-Orthodox bias. Does anyone have better sources for this point? JFW | T@lk 12:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Not so. If anything, Potok draws the Hassidic Jews more liberally than many of those sects actually are. For example, it is highly unlikely that a Hassidic Rebbe like Reb Saunders would have allowed his son to associate with someone who believes in "scientific criticism of the Bible." And his representation of the anti-Zionist position of the Hassidic Jews is treated rather realistically, and not unfairly either, in my opinion. 66.108.4.183 21:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth

Not all Hassidim are antizionist. While groups like Satmarers are notorius anitizionists, the Lubavitchers are very prozionist.204.15.6.99 (talk) 05:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

It would be misleading to suggest that the portrayal of Hasidism in the novel reflects an "anti-Orthodox bias", considering that all the main characters in the novel are Orthodox Jews, including the non-Hasidic characters such as Reuven and his father. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 19:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Plot Section Rewrite

I think that the plot section needs a rewrite because it sounds too much like an ad. Wikipedia is suppose to sound netural. --Plus I just found that it was copied from http://www.lasierra.edu/~ballen/potok/Chosen.syn.html and had minor changes made to it. Wikipedia does not accept text copied from other places. This section needs to be rewritten from scratch. --michael180 22:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the old plot section before User:12.156.194.3 added the copyvio. --michael180 22:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest dividing the Plot section into Book 1 Book 2 and Book 3 for greater clarity and detail. I will go ahead with this in time, if no one objects. Dwarf Kirlston 22:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Plot introduction

I don't understand this sentence: "Although very vaguely written in the prior sentence, Potok writes contrarily of these places with vividness and rich detail." Also, why is the plot introduction all about place and setting? 14:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: "untrue statement"

I would like to see this editor's justification for saying "Reb impresses Reuven in turn, and Reuven begins to nurture ideas of becoming a rabbi himself" is an untrue statement. Reuven does decide he wants to become a rabbi, which would certainly have been influenced by Saunders' example, and Reuven did come to appreciate who the man was, particularly to his family and his congregation. Zephyrad 08:03, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to provide my justification. Causation doesn't work backwards in time. On page 69 of my edition, during Danny's second meeting in the hospital, Reuven reveals his ambition to become a rabbi. So to say that he "begins to nuture this idea" when he meets Reb (several days later) is obviously false. One could still argue that Reb provided the encouragement and example that made Reuven sure of his decision, but the textual evidence for this is weak. Reuven does not have a very positive view of Reb Saunders as evidenced by the repeated conversations in which Mr. Malter or Danny defends Rab Saunder's actions aginst Reuven's attacks. Reuven is specifically angry about Reb's choice to remain silent with Danny. He only appreciates Reb in the end when he has already decided to become a Rabbi. Thus I do not think that Reuven is very impressed during the stage in which he makes his decision. If you disagree please give textual evidence.

You also reverted a few grammar corrections claiming that they were not corrections. I see no reason not to replace "try" with "attempt" as it is more fitting of the tone of an encyclopedia. And in the sentence "Reuven's father, however, insists that he make peace with Danny" "he make" isn't correct unless I am overlooking some grammar rule (If so please point it out). One doesn't say he come, one says he comes. One doesn't say he run, one says he runs. I might be wrong. I am not sure, so I wont revert either of these edits now. However, I will if I do not see some good evidence convincing me that I am wrong. CuttingEdge 13:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC

Replacing "try" with "attempt" is hairsplitting in context. More than one try = "tries". Changing "tries" to "attempts" does not improve the tone; it just sounds stilted. You are indeed overlooking a grammar rule with "insists he make"; the implication is "insists (that) he (shall/must/will/needs to) make peace". One would not say "A insists that B must makes peace"; it would be "must make peace". Leaving the word (must/shall/needs to) out does not change the appropriate text or grammar; the implication is still there.

You are also presuming a cause-and-effect relationship between the two statements, "Reb impresses Reuven in turn" and "Reuven begins to nurture (not "nuture") thoughts of becoming a rabbi himself". I have not read the book in about twenty years, but I do recall Reuven not thinking seriously about becoming a rabbi until after he had gotten to know Reb (not "Rab") Saunders, and that Reuven was impressed (especially as time unfolded) by the leadership role Reb Saunders played to his congregation. Your edits and comments seem to say that Reuven was never impressed by Reb Saunders; context plainly shows the opposite. He did not like Reb Saunders at first, but came to appreciate the man, and he certainly influenced Reuven's career choice. Your stance ignores this. The spelling, syntax and other mistakes I've noticed in your writing also do not convince me of your arguments. Zephyrad 23:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out where I was wrong on the grammar. It is not one of my strengths (neither is typing). However, reading comprehension is. Furthermore, I have read the book 4 times in the last 2 years and studied it in class. The statement I removed was misleading at best. However, the revision of it is fine. I'm glad we could work to correct it. CuttingEdge 21:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Reuven states, in Book 1, that he wanted to become a rabbi. He said so in the first civil conversation with Danny (in the hospital), while his eye was still healing. "I may become a rabbi. Not a Jasidic-type, though." Reb Saunders did not influence his choice of becoming a rabbi, Reuven actually did not support the idea of someone having so much influence over an entire community. "'I can't understand how Jews can follow another human being so blindly'" Please keep this in mind. However, I do agree with splitting the plot synopsis into Book 1, 2, and 3. IF you are going to do that, please add more depth and details. -Sparkly Red Cart —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparkly Red Cart (talk • contribs)

Editing

does anybody mind if i add more details to the plot summary cuz im reading the book now Nobody of Ithaca 01:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC) also do i need sources cuz it comes from the book directly. Nobody of Ithaca 02:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

External References

the book makes extensive use of quotes: In the dedication page there is one by Karl A Menninger and one by Ben Jonson. Title Page it quotes proverbs. Book two it quotes "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah. -The Zohar." Book three title page quotes "a word is worth one coin; silence is worth two -The Talmud" . Pirket Avot chapter 1,6" assign yourself a teacher, aquire a friend, Judge Benevolently" is also quoted. Furthermore it speaks of Solomon Maimonin chapter 6Dwarf Kirlston 03:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

UK Release

William Heinemann, 1967. Published in Penguin Books 1970. Penguin ISBN: 0 14 00 3094 8 (Details from 1973 Penguin Printing) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.162.19.98 (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2012 (UTC)