Talk:Teun language

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Requested move 2 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:55, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Te'un language → Teun language – Teun is the name used in academic sources, Te'un is used by ISO 639-3, but is not the WP:COMMONNAME. Austronesier (talk) 11:22, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Austronesier (talk) 14:52, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Add The spelling "Teun" is used in every source by researchers specialized in the languages of Maluku:
1. Aone van Engelenhoven (2003). "Language endangerment in Indonesia: The incipient obsolescence and acute death of Teun, Nila and Serua (Central and Southwest Maluku)". Language Death and Language Maintenance: Theoretical, Practical and Descriptive Approaches. Amsterdam: John Benjamins. pp. 49–80. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |editors= ignored (|editor= suggested) (help)
2. Klamer, Marian (2002). "Typical Features of Austronesian Languages in Central/Eastern Indonesia". Oceanic Linguistics. 41 (2): 363–383. JSTOR 3623314.
3. Hinton, Bryon (2000). "The languages of Wetar: recent survey results and word lists, with notes on Tugun grammar". In Grimes, C.E. (ed.), Spices from the East: Papers in languages of Eastern Indonesia. Pacific Linguistics 503. The Australian National University. doi:10.15144/PL-503.105.
4. Hull, Geoffrey (1998). "The basic lexical affinities of Timor's Austronesian languages: a preliminary investigation." Studies in Languages and Cultures of East Timor 1:97–202.
5. Taber, Mark (1993). "Toward a Better Understanding of the Indigenous Languages of Southwestern Maluku." Oceanic Linguistics, Vol. 32, No. 2 (Winter, 1993), pp. 389–441. University of Hawai'i.
6. Mills, R.F. (1991). "Tanimbar-Kei: an Eastern Indonesian subgroup". In Blust, R. (ed.). Currents in Pacific Linguistics: Papers on Austronesian languages and ethnolinguistics in honour of George W. Grace. Pacific Linguistics C-117. Australian National University. pp. 241–263. doi:10.15144/PL-C117.241.
7. James T. Collins (1982). "Linguistic Research in Maluku: A Report of Recent Field Work". Oceanic Linguistics. 21 (1/2): 73–146. JSTOR 3623155.

Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics (given here as source for "Te'un") is a tertiary source which just repeats the ISO-name. However, ISO-name does not always equal WP:COMMONNAME. –Austronesier (talk) 14:52, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:29, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:USEENGLISH. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:42, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, but required more info per International Encyclopedia of Linguistics ed. Frawley - 2003 "Nila: 1,800 speakers in Maluku, Indonesia. Transmigration area on south central Seram Island, central Maluku, six villages (originally Nila Island in south central Maluku). Close to Serua. Not intelligible with Te'un. Perai: also called Tutunohan." and Moseley Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages 2008 " Te'un [362] Indonesia: Maluku (south central). Now spoken in a ..." In ictu oculi (talk) 07:56, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment These two are WP:TERTIARY sources which uncritically adopt the ISO-spelling. James T. Collins, Geoffrey Hull, Marian Klamer and Aone van Engelenhoven are among the leading experts in the study of the languages of Eastern Indonesia, and they all spell "Teun". This is the kind of WP:PRECISION WP should reflect; the incorrect ISO-spelling will still be kept anyway as a redirect to enable crossreference from ISO-derived sources. –Austronesier (talk) 08:26, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But isn't that the point? These are general tertiary sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:30, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The entry "Timor languages" in the International Encyclopedia of Linguistics was written by the great Barbara Grimes and essentially is an Ethnologue clone. SIL, the publisher of the Ethnologue, has served as the main source for the ISO 639-3 data, which latter is reproduced in Glottolog, Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages and other tertiary sources. So the spurious apostrophe goes back to one source, viz. SIL's Ethnologue. I'm still digging to find out why Barbara Grimes came to spell it that way. Her son, Charles E. Grimes, who incidentally specialized on the languages of East Indonesia, has edited a volume which also contains a paper that mentions Teun. Needless to say that it's spelled without an apostrophe there. –Austronesier (talk) 14:12, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom: as a tertiary source ourselves, we should follow the usage in the core secondary literature, not in one or two other, borderline, tertiary texts. – Uanfala (talk) 10:07, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support given sources identified by Austronesier.--Bob not snob (talk) 08:54, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.