Talk:Stephen Simpson (writer)

Sources and Info welcomed

@TheVirginiaHistorian and Rjensen: -- Sources for Stephen Simpson and his father George Simpson (of 1st U.S. Natl Bank) are hard to come by. They were opposed to the same Bank Jefferson was, and for the same reasons. Any and all additional info, insights and help in this area welcomed. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 03:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I deleted "Like Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson, Simpson fiercely opposed the U.S. Bank and its practices." Jefferson opposed the FOUNDING of the 1st Bank US in 1791 and never liked it much, but I don't think he attacked it after that (he let Gallatin set policy and Gallatin liked banks--See Bray Hamilton p 205) . It expired in 1811. Jackson attacked the SECOND Bank of the US -- a very different bank set up by Madison (Jefferson's close ally) . For sources on Simpson see Edward Pessen, "The Ideology of Stephen Simpson, Upperclass Champion of the Early Philadelphia Workingmen's Movement." Pennsylvania History (1955): 328-340. online also see this reference: Henry Simpson (1859). The Lives of Eminent Philadelphians, Now Deceased. pp. 890–93. Rjensen (talk) 06:47, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

@Rjensen: Thanks for checking into the article. We know Jefferson didn't like banks in general, so like the Jefferson article already mentions (w/ two citations), we can at least mention that without naming the 1st U.S. Bank itself if we must, unless there's a source that specifically says Jefferson also didn't like that bank in particular, which wouldn't surprise me. The article didn't say Jefferson "attacked" the bank. In any case, it would seem if Jefferson didn't like the U.S. Bank's founding it was because he didn't like the bank. Yes? -- Re: the citation tag: Simpson, 1859 p. 893 says: The Aurora," then published by the late Colonel William Duanc, a series of articles, signed " Brutus," which attracted great attention. They were bold, defying, scathing attacks upon the management of the Bank of the United States, its policy, and its transactions. On p. 894 following it goes on to explain that the "Brutus" letters were indeed authored by Simpson. IOW, Simpson fiercely attacked the bank. Why the citation tag? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 15:50, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Jefferson never liked any banks--they cheated everyone, he thought. Interest was unjust and unfair (a surprisingly medieval attitude he never shook off.) (Historians note that he was always in debt and that soured his attitude--he always spent $$$$ on wines and books and luxuries he could not afford, and he blamed banks.) But after 1791 I think all his complaints were kept private re the BUS. As president he did not try to hinder its work. Hammond has the best coverage. Rjensen (talk) 16:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

@Rjensen: -- Charging high interest rates on people and institutions in desperate need of money I would think is a legit' grievance, among many others over the practices that banks were known for. e.g.Playing on existing troubles and instigating wars so they can loan money to both sides. I don't think Jefferson blamed banks for his spending habits and subsequent debt, and after all, he did get to 'wine and dine' alot. Aye? In any case, I'll remove the cite tag, as Simpson did make fierce attacks. At the same time, I'll look into Hammond. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 16:48, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

A couple notes: always be clear whether it's 1st BankUS or 2nd BankUS that's at issue. the name was William Duane not Duanc. For the extremely shrill rhetoric of the day, take a look at http://www.jstor.org/stable/40066936?seq=2 Rjensen (talk) 05:37, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

William Duane

@Rjensen and TheVirginiaHistorian: That was a typo. I'm a little surprised there isn't an article for William Duane. Jefferson credited him and the Aurora for his victory in 1800. I added a note about him to this effect in the Professional and political career section. Sources aren't too difficult to find for him. 1, 2, 3, etc. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 08:14, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

National Cyclopedia

My paraphrase from the National Cyclopedia should solve one of the 'citation needed' tags. Perhaps it's enough for an Early Life section.

from “Simpson, Stephen” National Cyclopedia of American Biography vol. 5 p.543. Viewed September 19, 2014.

Stephen Simpson was born in Philadelphia, July 24,1789. His father, George Simpson (1759-1832) was an assistant commissary-general in the revolution and had a career in banking including successively important positions in the Bank of North America chartered by the Confederation Congress, the Bank of the United States and in the Girard Bank of Philadelphia. Stephen Simpson began his career as a note-clerk in the Bank of the United States before he turned to journalism.

In the War of 1812, Simpson served at the Battle of New Orleans and after his service became owner and editor of “The Portico: A Repository of Science & Literature” (1816-1818). He used the pen name “Brutus” to contribute many contributions to the Jeffersonian-Republican “Aurora” critical of the U.S. Bank.

In 1822, he became co-proprietor with John Conrad of the Democratic “Columbian Observer” publishing in Philadelphia (1822-1825) as a tri-weekly, supporting Andrew Jackson's policies. ref. Columbian Observer in Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers. Library of Congress viewed September 19, 2014.

This will take a little work integrating with the existing source, but its doable. While the Library of Congress source does not say "supporting Andrew Jackson's policies", the National Cyclopedia does. Is a second footnote required?

National Cyclopedia notes Simpson’s biography of Stephen Girard which can be had at Biography of Stephen Girard which elsewhere is characterized by Henry Atlee Ingram as malevolent, and filled with malice. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 18:22, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

• @Rjensen and TheVirginiaHistorian: Thanks (!!) for the additional sources and feed back. This has all been a tremendous help. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:45, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

"Working Men's Party"

Besides the distinction between the First U.S. Bank of Hamilton and the Second U.S. Bank of Madison, there is another distinction to hold in Simpson's life, between the first Philadelphia Working Men's Party and the second New York Working Men's Party. Encyclopedia Britannica makes a distinction between the two platforms, attaching Owens the son to the New York party. Does Simpson write for the Working Man's Advocate? TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 07:56, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

The Philadelphia Working Men’s Party lasted four years from 1828 to 1831. Following a carpenter’s strike for the ten-hour day in 1827, the Mechanics Union of Trade Associations was established among cordwainers, hatters and carpenters. Their eight point platform included public education, mechanic’s lien laws, an end of imprisonment for debt and the compulsory militia system, and they denounced chartered monopolies, the liquor industry, public lotteries and the banks issuing their own notes. Candidates were elected who also ran as Democrats in 1828 and 1829. A party convention in 1830 included chapters in seven cities across Pennsylvania. But charges of irreligion, agrarianism and radicalism resulted in no candidates elected. REF: Zorn, Roman J., “The Working Men’s Parties of 1828-1831” in the Arkansas Academy of Science p.174-176, viewed September 20, 2014.

From the Mechanic’s Free Press of Philadelpia, an Address from the Convention to the people of Pennsylvania 1830 emphasizes public education at the beginning, for most of the address, and at the closing. See ADDRESS OF THE CITY AND COUNTY CONVENTION TO THE WORKING MEN OF THE STATE at the Samuel Gompers Papers, University of Maryland. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:34, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

In Kevin Powers chapter —not for reference in the article ---“labor parties” posted at the Princeton Press.edu p.460, additional issues listed for the Working Men’s Parties include basic health measures “such as street cleaning and water and sewage works”. In Philadelphia following the unsuccessful strike for a 10-hour day in 1827 amidst a depression, the Working Men controlled city government in 1829, but by 1832, the party had collapsed. The “Dirty Shirt Party” was defeated by the major parties. As with later labor parties, they succeeded in times of labor unrest in regions with strong labor organization, but their electoral success could not be sustained when the major parties co-opted their issues with support from middle- and upper-class majorities. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:55, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Connections?

Connections: According to the LOC links shown, The Mechanics Free Press (1828-1831) was succeeded by the The Philadelphia Times and mechanic’s free press and working man’s register (1831-1835) published by J. Conrad. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 09:11, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Nope, that's a research blind alley, more like a split. --- Like others who had been successful Working Men’s Party candidates, Simpson in his 1830 race also ran on another ticket. In his case, having broken with Jackson for not giving him a post in the administration, he ran as a Federalist. After losing, Simpson founded a new paper in 1831, the Pennsylvania Whig, devoted to the Whig party, attacking the abuses of the Jackson administration and supporting the Second U.S. Bank. REF Pessen, Edward. “The ideology of Stephen Simpson, upperclass champion of the early Philadelphia workingmen’s movement” in Pennsylvania History, vol. 22, no.4 October 1955. p.332 TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 09:57, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

• The Girard Bank of Philadelphia in 1834 was one of the government depositories in the Second U.S. Bank. REF Mueller, Henry E., “The Whig Party in Pennsylvania” (1922) Political Science Dept. of Columbia U., eds. p.260. viewed September 20, 2014.

• Our Stephen Simpson may have been married, because at Princeton, we have Stephen Simpson Letters to His Wife. during the War of 1812. (Thanks to RFD). TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 15:51, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Introducing sections

@TheVirginiaHistorian and Rjensen: -- Pressen, 2005, The ideology of Stephen Simpson ... p. 339, cover's Simpson's attitude toward the 2nd US Bank, how he began to disappoint some of his followers, many of whom supported Jackson's war on the Second Bank, when he began praising it as a "public benefit" and a 'protector' against he issuance of paper money, a common practice among other banks evidently, but this was also tempered with various reforms he introduced to this bank. He also came out in favor of a sales tax (not on food and other necessities however). Pressen notes: "As is the case with other reformers before and after, and in fact as is true of most mortals, some of his views appear contradictory." I think we're about ready to introduce at least a couple of more sections to the article so we can better outline these and some of the other advents brought to the table. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 15:19, 20 September 2014 (UTC)