Talk:Umbundu

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Tonal?

Is it a tonal language? Badagnani 20:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. DrKiernan (talk) 12:34, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

South Mbundu language → Umbundu – The language spoken by the Ovimbundu is generally known as "Umbundu" (language code umb) rather than "South Mbundu language". "Umbundu" is the more usual name, it is the name used in academic papers, and it matches the ISO 639-2 language code. --Bejnar (talk) 14:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree entirely. Today everybody - from the Africanists to the people in Angola - uses "Umbundu". "Southern Mbundu language" has clearly become obsolete. -- Aflis (talk) 21:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)NB: Umbundu is spoken by more then one third of the Angolan population (> 20 million by mid-2012) - one more reson for its sailing under an appropriate flag...[reply]
Tentative agree, but first... Seems strongly supported by GBks. The only niggle is William Frawley International encyclopedia of linguistics: Volume 1 - 2003 Page 125 which has a box Subgrouping of Narrow Bantu “R” Languages -- Narrow Bantu R.10 (South Mbundu) Ndombe, Nkhumbi, Nyaneka, Umbundu. In other words according to Frawley "Narrow Bantu R.10" (= "South Mbundu") includes Ndombe, Nkhumbi, Nyaneka, Umbundu. Can someone please clarify on this point? In ictu oculi (talk) 12:02, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the ethnographic studies on Angola (see e.g. José Redinha, Etnias e culturas de Angola, Luanda: Instituto de Investigação Científica de Angola, 1975, reprint 2009), the farmer-herder peoples classified as "Nyaneka-Khumbi" (Nhaneca-Humbe) are a population cluster that has to be clearly distinguished from the Ovimbundu (their neighbours to the North). Their languages are mutually intelligible within the cluster, but not with Umbundu. The Ndombe, a coastal people, are a different case: often considered as originally close to the Herero, they have undergone a process of cultural "umbundization", as have the Hanya, but like these, have maintained their social identity. Now, from the point of view of linguistical classification, it may well be that the languages of all these ethnic groups are included in one overarching category. If the linguists call this category "South Mbundu", that is, then, one more reason for changing the title of our article to "Umbundu", so that it applies with precision to a clearly defined ethnic group, the Ovimbundu. -- Aflis (talk) 10:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC) PS: Umbundu is spoken by about 1/3 of the Angolan population and is thus - aside from Portuguese - the most important language of the country.[reply]

Ethnologue - see http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=88-16 - confirms my hypothesis above: linguists use "South Mbundu" as a broad classification category that includes Umbundu. "Southern mbundu" is thus not only obsolete, but a term which leads to confusion. As the article is in fact about Umbundu, it is urgent to give it its proper name. -- Aflis (talk) 10:33, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sources

Although I myself have criticized the sources the article contained, I am not sure one should delete all of them, as user:Kwamikagami just did. I there are no better sources, one thould in my opinion maintain those which were there, specifying the corrections they call for. As I did for "Mbalundu": This is, in umbundu, the name of the people living in the Bailundo region of the Huambo province, who formerly constituted a "kingdom", and who use umbundu in such a specific way that one can speak of a dialect. -- Aflis (talk) 22:44, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Kwami: Please don't simple wipe out, summarily, all of the sources. Some might be dispensable, but when eliminating them, you should give your reasons! -- Aflis (talk) 10:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I did give my reason. My reason is that we even warn our readers that they're bad sources. Better no sources than incorrect ones. — kwami (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Name of the language

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever called "Umbundu" simply "Mbundu". Certainly nobody in Angola. Besides, if the article itself is named "Umbundu", that is the name to be maintained throughout the article. NB: In some older and/or less scholarly texts, you can find "Mbundu" as a name for the Akwambundu (= the Kimbundu speaking) people. On the other hand, the terminology "Northern Mbundu" vs. "Southern Mbundu" is used, exclusively, by a number of English speaking authors. -- Aflis (talk) 10:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And ours is an English-speaking audience. Mbundu is the root, the basis of the name. The main reason people specify Umbundu is to dab it from Kimbundu. We certainly don't need to say Umbundu, also known as Umbundu. — kwami (talk) 19:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The root is of course "mbundu". But the root in itself doesn't make sense; it always needs a prefix. Here we need the language prefix. In the English speaking literature on Angola, Umbundu has since the middle of the 20th century become common use. As to the native name, it has never been anything but umbundu. -- Aflis (talk) 09:05, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, it does not. It often has a prefix. Just check Gbooks for the past few years. — kwami (talk) 02:36, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand by the above answer. Nor the reason for your reverting my edit. -- Aflis (talk) 09:59, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It does not "always" have a prefix. It often has a prefix. It sometimes does not. It's rather similar to Lingala in this regard. — kwami (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

official status

Somebody classified Umbundu in the box as a "minority language". It so happens that the Angolan state classified Umbundu as one of six "national languages". Unfortunately, I have not been able to find out how to register that status in the box. I hope somebody else can do it.... Aflis (talk) 09:36, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistency in information on orthographic representation of tone

The article states that tones are marked by acute and grave accents, but the text examples don't seem to have any. What gives?

Incorrect translation

In the "Vocabulary" section the article writes 'Wakolapo? (sg); Wakolipo? (pl)' as a translation for 'Hello'. I believe this is incorrect since this is the same translation for 'How are you?'. LegbelsoPont (talk) 17:43, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]