Talk:Sony's Spider-Man Universe

Related films

@DisneyMetalhead: Would you agree we should have a related films section making mention of the SSU cameos in Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) and Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse (2023), the latter establishing the world of the SSU as Earth-688? Envoyjuaner (talk) 19:09, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

A related films section has been reverted in the past as it has just been a table without much new information added that is not already covered elsewhere in the article. Such a table is not needed. I am working on adding what is true on the SSU and Spider-Verse connections to this article with adequate sourcing. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:49, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I know. I disagree, and am opening a dialogue here on the talk. Envoyjuaner (talk) 19:55, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

In what ways would such a table provide any useful details to this article specifically that is not already covered. On one end, it can be misleading to have another table of films as some readers could interpret those as being part of the franchise when they are not. Please see discussions on this in the archives, such as Talk:Sony's Spider-Man Universe/Archive 1#Related films and Talk:Sony's Spider-Man Universe/Archive 1#Related..."media"(?) vs Related films, where it was determined prose is sufficient to explain these details as is already done throughout the article and would be unneeded repetition. Including every single film with Spider-Man (Maguire, Garfield, and Holland) is unneeded repetitio of Spider-Man in film, and Garfield and Maguire are not connected to the SSU directly. A section just discussing the NWH and Across connections is already established at the MCU and Spider-Verse connections header in the article. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:15, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Really just to discuss the multiverse cameos — in particular Mrs. Chen in Across the Spider-Verse. Envoyjuaner (talk) 20:20, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I have noted that in the MCU and SV connections header here with my most recent edit, where other cameos in NWH, LTBC, and Morbius are already noted. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:24, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@EnvoyJuaner: I would agree that a "related films" section would indeed be constructive. It isn't "misleading" as User:Trailblazer101 stated, as this can be clarified in pros/paragraph form beforehand. A film table would show similar details to what is shown on the films section above (i.e.: film title, release date, director(s), writers, and producers) and only continue to build what the Sony studio is doing per the sources I added before... MULTIVERSE. To not include the films on this article would be a disservice to the SSU as a whole.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 02:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

As has been said multiple times on this, the information on the multiverse connections is already included in this article. Including a table of films with information already given at each film's article is not necessary here, and I have yet to see any new points that prove otherwise to overrule prior consensus on this. This article is only for what is in Sony's shared universe, not for everything connected to the multiverse of Spider characters. That's why Spider-Man in film exists, and it would be unneeded repetition of the table there. Multiverse connections can be noted at that article if not already done so adequately. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:54, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

And as I have stated multiple times, what makes the information of the mutilversal connections not noteworthy enough to include additional details, here? They are all connected through the multiverse. I'm not necessarily stating that they need to have a film table, although it gives the average reader a detailed overall insight to the connections. What is obvious however, is that the section detailing the multiverse needs to be expanded to include more details.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 23:58, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101: similar to my other comments, it's worth noting that you didn't response to my comments here from June 2023 as well. A section detailing the related films, as the Sony's Spider-Man Universe does connect to various other franchises -- would be helpful, and it wouldn't be "misleading" if in pros of the section it was detailed how they are connected (i.e.: through the multiverse which is a large part of all of Sony's Spider-Verse franchises).--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 00:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

I have been busy with a lot of things since then, on and off wiki, and you could have also rejuvenated this conversation once it went stale. Timing besides the point, it is not up to a sole individual to restart a discussion, and no one is obligated or mandated to respond (this is not a court proceeding). It would be unnecessary to implement a random wikitable at the bottom of the article when the films relevant to this franchise are already explained in detail where it is necessary. There is consensus not to include such a table in this article anymore, with the consensus established here. I don't see that changing anytime soon with very limited support for including it anymore. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:44, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

DisneyMetalhead, silence is the weakest form of consensus. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:01, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't see any need for a "related films" section. Toa Nidhiki05 15:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101, InfiniteNexus, and Toa Nidhiki05: my intentions in reopening this discussion are entirely constructive, and based within the WP:BOLD outline. There are multiple connections between all of Sony's Spider-Man projects (both visible on screen, as well as behind the scenes). Mentioning these facts in pros (as has been done with the MCU details) is helpful, though it is still missing the previous Sony Spider-Man movies, and the Spider-Verse cartoon film series as well. The connections between the Spider-Verse, the various Spider-Man movies, and the spin-off villain movies are all noteworthy. My argument is that this article should explain how they are related. Once Sony is finished making any MCU films (which they were indeed doing for a time, before a new deal was sorted out), these connections will also no doubt be more greatly emphasized. As-is, I reiterate the connections should all be addressed in some for or another.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 06:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

My stance on the matter hasn’t changed. Any future connections can be addressed on a case-by-case basis. Toa Nidhiki05 07:17, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

My points still stand and nothing has eventuated to lead me to believe such a section is warranted when we already detail the actual connections elsewhere in this article. As Toa suggested, any connections to other media can be discussed when it is applicable and/or appropriate. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Television Series Table

If both announced series are on MGM+ and Amazon Prime Video, then why make a column for it in the table. Shouldn't it be included in text and the column be removed? Syed Ahmed Qasim (talk) 08:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

It has been moved to prose now. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Article name

@Trailblazer101: Hey yo if we are keeping Noir here, the announcement puts the actual name of this franchise as Sony's Universe of Marvel Characters again, quoted as Katherine Pope, President of Sony Pictures Television Studios saying it.

“We are absolutely thrilled to have Nicolas Cage starring in this series! No one else could bring such pathos, pain, and heart to this singular character. Along with our brilliant producers and partners at Amazon MGM Studios and Prime Video, we couldn’t ask for a better team to explore this reimagining of such an iconic character in Sony’s Universe of Marvel Characters.”

While I do think this is probably proof that all the recent Reddit/Twitter reports of the franchises are in the process of being merged are true (fitting all the way back with the Into the Spider-Verse-based post-credits scene of Venom with its "Meanwhile in another universe" tagline, the Mrs. Chen cameo scene of Across the Spider-Verse, and the reported live-action Spider-Gwen film with Hailee Steinfeld now in the works, to say those films would also need to be mentioned on this page in the future, the Spider-Verse franchise draft info being merged here), for now it's as simple as Sony's Universe of Marvel Characters being the main name again instead of Sony's Spider-Man Universe, focused on a full multiverse of characters instead of a single universe like early phases of the MCU or both the old DCEU and new DCU.

So do we propose a move-back, or what? 5.100.255.129 (talk) 18:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The name of this franchise is discussed at Sony's Spider-Man Universe#Name and the former names are still commonly used to refer to it, even by Sony exces. That does not mean it ought to be changed. We aren't here to give credence to WP:RUMORS and we go by what is factually and reliably verifiable. The animated Spider-Verse content is mentioned in this article, though none of those are part of this franchise, which is for Sony's live-action spin-offs only. The SV franchise draft should remain where it is and there is no indication this live-action franchise and the animated franchise are somehow one and the same based on this one comment alone. This is all WP:SYNTHESIS and WP:Original research, which is not allowed on Wikipedia. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Peter Parker credit

There is currently 2 listings of Peter Parker in the cast table. I have tried a couple of times to move the uncredited infant actor from Madame Web to be in line with the MCU Peter Parker, but it gets reverted. The argument has been that they're different multiverse versions of the character, which could very easily be explained through an efn. While the word "variant" is an MCU word, this franchise is indeed tangentially connected to the MCU (not to mention the Spider-Man film series, The Amazing Spider-Man films, and the Spider-Verse movies). A simple resolution would be for the note to state that the infant is (at least as far as we know) an alternate universe version of Peter Parker.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 16:42, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Maybe if it gets reverted more than once, there is an actual reason, no? As I have explained in my reverts, the infant seen in Madame Web is not confirmed to be the same as Tom Holland's Spider-Man from the MCU, and is clearly not from the MCU. Putting the two together would be misleading and factually incorrect. Especially since the infant is not even credited or named in the film, I do not think we should be putting so much emphasis and WP:UNDUEWEIGHT on this with such an explanation. Also, the term "variant" has not been used to describe anything in Sony's films, which is what this article should go off of. This article is not for the MCU and we should not try to connect things that are not directly one and the same. Even at the MCU articles, when a new actual variant is introduced, those cast lists display the variant separately anyway, so keeping the MCU version and the very brief Madame Web infant separate is actually correct from a real-world perspective. We do not know that the infant is an alternate version of the MCU Parker, which is what you are implying here, and that is not confirmed regardless. Trailblazer101 (talk) 06:50, 29 October 2024 (UTC)