Talk:SE Palmeiras

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On 21 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Palmeiras. The result of the discussion was moved to SE Palmeiras.

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Some untruths in this Palmeiras Wikipedia English article

In opposition to what the Portuguese Wikipedia article lists about Palmeiras' history, the English and other foreign language versions write down some untruths regarding the club's history and honors. Probably a rival supporter enjoyed the opportunity that English and other foreign versions were still not protected for editing, and wrote down misleading texts against the real history of facts (since the original Portuguese Wikipedia version was already protected from vandalism long time ago). So that this version has kind of a "light vandalism" in place at moment.

Main untruth refers to the Copa Rio International that rivals supporters simply do not accept the fact that FIFA has recognized the competition as a first World Club cup, not a FIFA official competition, still a worldwide championship, in exactly the same way as the Intercontinental Cups were recognized 2 years after that.

On clear example of untruth: in this article is written "Palmeiras has requested several times to FIFA an official recognition as club world cup but has not achieved a positive result". This is a total lie.

FIFA has recognized it through its Secretary initially in 2007 and, most important, trough its Deliberative Council official Minutes on a meeting held in Brazil on June 7th 2014. This decision was never taken back, since only a new meeting by the Council about this subject could change it. FIFA's presidents might have their personal opinions, Blatter totally recognizes it, Infantino currently has his doubts over it (he is a political adversary of Blatter). The former decision of recognizing AS WELL the Intercontinental Cups occurred in 2016, in a separate process since these are different competitions that were still not recognized, but in exactly the same way as the 1951 Copa Rio International process of 2014, through the Deliberative Council official Minutes.

Follows the evidences that the phrase used in the article, that FIFA official recognition of Copa Rio as world club cup was never achieved is untruth (most of them are in Portuguese):

on its own Official Portal in Instagram, FIFA proclaims the following text: "@fifaworldcup Green is the colour of envy. ‘The Big Green’ were the envy of the wide world #OnThisDay 65 years ago. A Liminha-inspired @sepalmeiras edged a @juventus team including Giampiero Boniperti & a dazzling Danish triumvirate to become the sport’s first intercontinental world club champions. 100,000 watched that at the Maracanã. One million flooded the streets of São Paulo to welcome their heroes home. #BrazilIsBack #Euphoria #CopaRio #Juventus #Palmeiras #PalestraItália #Verdão #Liminha #Champions #Campeão #green" https://www.instagram.com/p/BIK_ELQBTTh/?hl=pt-- (please, check it to confirm)

ESPN Brazil - Document says that FIFA has attended to CBF request and recognized Palmeiras cup as the First World Competition https://www.espn.com.br/futebol/artigo/_/id/5244565/documento-diz-que-fifa-atendeu-cbf-e-reconheceu-titulo-do-palmeiras-como-primeira-competicao-mundial

Fox Sports Brazil - Exclusive, FIFA document named Palmeiras as the First World Champions https://www.foxsports.com.br/news/298163-exclusivo-documento-da-fifa-chamou-palmeiras-de-primeiro-campeao-mundial

Brazil Government - FIFA confirms Copa Rio 1951 won by Palmeiras as the First World Club Cup http://arquivo.esporte.gov.br/index.php/noticias/24-lista-noticias/49346-fifa-confirma-copa-rio-1951-vencida-pelo-palmeiras-como-primeiro-mundial-de-clubes

Estado de Sao Paulo - To Estado, FIFA confirms World Cup 1951 for Palmeiras https://esportes.estadao.com.br/noticias/futebol,ao-estado--fifa-confirma-mundial-de-1951-para-o-palmeiras,1813361

Globo Esporte - Brazilian minister receives from FIFA the confirmation that Palmeiras is World Club Champions of 1951 http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/times/palmeiras/noticia/2014/11/ministro-recebe-da-fifa-confirmacao-palmeiras-e-campeao-mundial-de-1951.html

Brazilian Clubs Rankings - The First World Club Championship http://www.rankingdeclubes.com.br/o-primeiro-campeonato-mundial-de-clubes.htm

Despite the current article focus on the personal opinion of the FIFA's president, Gianni Infantino, the entity after the recognition of both Copa Rio 1951 and Intercontinental Cups from 1960 on, clearly separates these world level recognized competitions from the Official FIFA World Club Cups, created and organized by the entity. The proof of that is that these Intercontinental Cups are not listed in FIFA website as well. https://www.fifa.com/fifa-tournaments/archive/clubworldcup/index.html

Still, clubs as Santos, Gremio, Flamengo and Sao Paulo are described in Wikipedia English, Spanish, French as owning World Cups as they won Intercontinental Cups (not listed in FIFA as well). Summarizing, the official definitive position of FIFA is that both Copa Rio 1951 and Intercontinental Cups were recognized as World Club Cups but they are not Official FIFA Cups. On the other hand, rival supporters insist in treat Copa Rio and Intercontinental Cups in different ways (despite both have same recognition status for FIFA), in the English, Spanish and French Wikipedia articles.

Well, I understand that, being a subject related to Brazilian football, with lots of rivalries involved, rivals supporters that don't agree to this late recognition of such important historic event. Still, this is Wikipedia, ere the truth MUST always prevail. In the Portuguese Wikipedia version, lots of vandalism occurred in the past since this is a polemic subject between Brazilian supporters, but over there, the Moderators were able to protect the page in time and maintain the original sequence of the facts. The Brazilian representative Moderator of this page is clearly a non-supporter of Palmeiras that has omitted the truth sequence of events as I proved above, once he enjoyed the opportunity that English, Spanish and other versions of Palmeiras page was so far not protected, and now, their untruthful versions of this subject are prevailed in Wikipedia.

Please, compare the English, Spanish and French versions of Palmeiras page with the Original and formerly protected Portuguese Wikipedia page of Palmeiras. On the original version, the truth facts prevailed and the competition recognition is properly and clearly described. My advice is to reedit this English, Spanish and French versions as a translation from the original Portuguese Wikipedia version, since Wikipedia must always describe the facts, with no omissions and no untruths, independently of football rivalries. THIS IS WIKIPEDIA, the true facts MUST prevail.

Thank you. Best regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonas.rastelli (talk • contribs) 22:13, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There was some confusion in the article. While Copa Rio can be considered a World Championship, it is definetly not a "Fifa Club World Cup", and this fact is shown by how it was written "Fifa Club World Cup", but redirecting to Copa Rio, because if it went to "Fifa World Club" it would go to a page that clearly states the Championship started only in 2000. I went to São Paulo FC's page to see how they deal with previous World titles, and they have a subsection for "Worldwide", where one title is "Fifa Club World Cup" and the previous two are listed as the Intercontinental Cup. So I decided to do the same here, with a section for "World", but Copa Rio listed as Copa Rio, instead of "Fifa Club World Cup". S1944 (talk) 03:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Cesar Sampaio Auxiliar.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:53, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to SE Palmeiras. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 20:37, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sociedade Esportiva Palmeiras → Palmeiras – Common name. 90.255.15.152 (talk) 10:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – Material Works ping me! 17:55, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 15:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as suggested; OFFICIALNAME applies, hence why we have articles (correctly) at e.g. Manchester United F.C. and not Man Utd; FC Barcelona and not Barça etc. however, I would support move to SE Palmeiras instead, as such use of acronyms is common for all other countries apart from Brazil for some reason... GiantSnowman 15:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Support SE Palmeiras per NATURAL.--Ortizesp (talk) 06:16, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

But have no mundial

no mundial. 2804:38A:A006:1AF9:0:29:6DF8:8501 (talk) 00:53, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Preemptively adding tournament titles should be a bannable offense

Users should not preemptively add the national title of 2023 until the official confirmation on Wednesday, December 6th 2023. 2603:9001:6303:2C7:843D:A390:A3C5:581D (talk) 18:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]