Talk:Shocker (gesture)

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Shocker (gesture) was a good article, but it was removed from the list as it no longer met the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.
Review: October 24, 2005. (Reviewed version).

Steel Panther

American hair metal band Steel Panther have a song called "The Shocker" on their 2009 album "Feel The Steel" which makes direct reference to this gesture with the lyrics "two in the pink one in the stink thats called the shocker"

Delisted GA

There are no references. slambo 10:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

RfC Response

In regards to whether this page should have a long list of names for the term:

In looking at the list, I think it is excessively long and does not add to the quality of the article. I think most of the list could be summarized by the following:

"There are a number of other terms for this hand gesture, most of which take the form "Two in the _______, one in the _______," where the first blank is filled with a slang term for vagina and the second blank is filled with a rhyming slang term for anus."

EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 03:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, simply because on reading the article, I was amused for a good five minutes. Wikipedia is certainly not free of adolescent toilet humor, and this is pop culture at its best/worst! If it needs to come out of this article, perhaps it could be listed as its own article. Articles aren't just about noteworthy knowledge; a list of pop culture references like this, while silly, is something that should be archived here. Indy 23:14, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Get rid of the list, or at least greatly shorten with note that other terms are also used. Yeah its funny but:

Looks like original research. Is there a citation for these?
Even if there is, are all, or most, of these names actually used in real life? Or have people been just making them up? If so, it's not really a pop cultural reference. Herostratus 20:17, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the removal of the list. People just make these things up. Tomsteele 07:48, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with the removal of the list. It captures an essential form of Americana: the joyously prurient. That the Shocker is now widely in evidence at public sporting games speaks to its subversive nature, too, in a time of right wing repression. "One up the Cheney" indeed. :-)

That's nice, but this is an encyclopedia. Also, please sign your comments. Tomsteele 00:10, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

One way or another, if this is not on the original list then it should be on the next one: It goes, "Two in the bush, one in the tush." Enjoy. Sonusfaber808

If anyone wants to see this list: [1] WikiGnome Jimw338 (talk) 17:53, 25 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dot Dot Dot

Who the hell made that list? Whoever did, good job! From ChewT 20:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why was it changed? It was much better before it all got taken out... From User:RonMexico 20:03, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

As a hand gesture, I think the casual observer would understand this article better with a picture. Can anyone provide a good (non copyvio) picture to put on the page? EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 04:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The picture on there now does not show the thumb extended as described in the text. --Gbleem 06:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Censorship

I am not the one who enterd two in the pink one in the stink. Though there is no reason for this censorship. non-censorship is what the internet is about. These slang terms are used throughtout highschool and colleges all over, I should know, I live in one. JedOs 07:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have reviewed the revision, and I agree that the list should be put back up. It sates the culture of the times. JedOs 07:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Many of you may not have noticed that this is an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias generally don't contain endless lists of dubious slang. tregoweth 08:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

While I can also confirm that some of the terms on the previous list are used in actual conversations, especially on college campuses, this change is not about censorship. In my mind, this change was about whether an unnecessarily long list, which was 2-5 times larger than the article itself, was worthy of keeping in an encyclopedia. I feel the current format gives you the basic layout of the term, with the generalized example (which I have to keep reverting) accounting for at least 90% of the variations. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 18:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The list problem I can understand. But, why is "Two in the _______, one in the _______," being censored in the article? JedOs 19:18, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The form with the blanks is a generalized form that describes almost all the variations of this saying. There are some who insist on putting in a less generalized, more specific form there which is less descriptive of the actual phenomenon. I would not be opposed to having 1-5 examples, e.g. "Two in the pink, one in the stink." However, I feel that if we allow any specific examples, the list will just repopulate itself, and we'll have the same problem all over again. Thoughts? EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 21:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I absolutely agree, we dont have to give a list. But "Two in the pink, one in the stink." should be shown. JedOs 00:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would have no problem with one or two examples. tregoweth 07:51, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I have added one example, which I feel is the most widely used one and probably about the only one from the list actually in wide usage. Googling "Two in the pink, one in the stink" yields 827 pages. The only other one I've heard in major usage, "Two in the coo, one in the poo" only yields 5 Google hits. Most of the others from the list probably yield zero. Hopefully this 1 example won't increase the edits to repopulate the list. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 08:02, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above comments, and think that "two in the pink, one in the stink" should be included. I think that stuff like this is what makes Wikipedia better than all other encyclopedias, because it has entries such as this one, documenting things that other encyclopedias would most certainly leave out. Kerkyra 05:20, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The list is what makes this page even worth having._MRN_ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.171.146.74 (talk) 18:53, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Anatomically possible?

This page is incomplete without a discussion of whether or not the shocker is anatomically possible.140.247.248.52 15:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it is. How could it not be? Cardsplayer4life 16:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have you EVER seen female anatomy? Why on earth would you think it wasn't anatomically possible? --Dogbreathcanada 19:24, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on the female who is recieving such an act, and the hand of her partnet, however it is usually possible. The total ignorance of the woman's clitoris is a blatant bit of ignorance, though. As well, not everyone appreciates standardized sex. Canaen 01:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a variant known as the "Viper" which adds the thumb as "one for the bean". There's also the "Showstopper", which is simply a fist. Counterfit 06:58, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't that what Puddy did to Elaine?

Don't forget the Swirl at the end! :-D

Dude, if you can't figure it out, don't even attempt sex with a female. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.2.9 (talk) 01:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Careful with 'delivery'!

There's an important difference between displaying the shocker and delivering it: to display it is just to show the gesture, but to deliver it is to actually put it in the bodily cavities.

I saw it misstated in the caption of the picture of the cheerleader in the 'Notable Appearances' section; I'm lazy, so I haven't checked anywhere else. Just don't mix that up—it sets a bad precedence. >_> <_< -Dan 05:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed reference to six packing

I just removed the reference to six packing. For one, it's not hand gesture, it's a sex act. Additionally, it has very little resemblence to the shocker and really doesn't apply to being a varient of the shocker. Finally, the description of the act referenced the ring finger as being both extended (with the middle finger) as well as bent down (with the pinky). Trying to find the correct arrangement of fingers revealed only one real reference (http://www.collegehumor.com/jokes/24143/) on a college joke page and again, referenced it as a sex act, not a hand gesture.

Disney bans the Shocker?

I disagree, or at least, this information needs to be sourced. I have a picture of me doing the Shocker on the rock n roller coaster in Feb of 2005. In addition to the original disagreement I posted before (first sentence), I did a shocker on Space Mountain at Disneyland Park on October 5,2006 and it showed up fine. If it is something that is removed (and I am sure boob shots and middle fingers are), then the shocker must not be an official policy or needs to be sourced, so I removed the paragraph.

At Walt Disney World's Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Steven Tyler of Aerosmith can be seen making the gesture during the preshow. Despite this fact, if a guest makes the gesture at one of its attractions where a souvenir photo is taken, the photo will not be displayed and it will not be allowed for purchase.

MikeSims 16:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"shocker"

"two for the Pink, one for the stink" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.2.54.228 (talk) 23:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Picture removed

Where is the picture of the Wichita State cheerleader from ESPN? It was: 1) an actual display, which the article should have, and 2) cultural context and a visual "sourcing!" Jgates, 21:00 6 March 2007

Matt Hardy

He uses the shocker as his gesture, should this be on here?

Hardy's hand signal is different. He touches his thumb to his ring finger, and spreads his index and middle fingers apart. It's not supposed to be a 'shocker', it's supposed to look like "V1" for "Version One", his nickname. 74.70.171.36 15:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List cruft

I removed the mnemonic listcruft, since it obviously violates Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. --Bkkbrad 22:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I'll keep removing it. hmwith talk 14:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The List

Who keeps taking off the list? It contains legitimate variants to the original. In fact, one who only searches for a variant will arrive at the original. Without the list of legitimate variations on the theme, it cannot be traced back to the shocker. I'll revert it if I can figure out how.Llamabr 22:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For future reference, make all comments at the bottom of talk pages.

As for the list, see the above conversation, as that states why it shouldn't be here.

Plus, there were no sources for the names.

Cheers! hmwith talk 22:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I saw the conversation, and was not moved by the arguments contained therein. I'll see if I can revert it. One things that's so infuriating about wikipedia is that the decisions seem to be made the the loudest, bullyingest, losers, with more time than I have to change things around to meet their whims. Llamabr 16:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's WP:LISTCRUFT. Also, please refrain from personal attacks and assume good faith. Keep the environment friendly! hmwith talk 16:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance

Should this nonsense really be the main direct for shocker? Wouldn't the Spider-Man villain and the horror movie be more relevant? I've never heard or seen this gesture before. There's not even a disambiguation page at the top. 68.166.70.23 04:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Searching for "shocker", and entering it after en.wikipedia.org/wiki/, now takes me to a redirect page. 65.12.16.199 07:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly American, or more international?

Is the shocker a common gesture outside of the US? I have a non-American friend who displays the gesture proudly in photographs, which is quite dissonant with her other behavior and makes me wonder if she understands the meaning. Are there different meanings in other parts of the world? 65.12.16.199 07:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The same gesture is the number 6 in sign language as well. hmwith talk 19:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's used in Australia occasionally for the connotations expressed here, that is, as a general vulgar reference, just as the middle finger is...not as commonly, and generally in a humorous light rather than agressively.

It is also called the 'barracuda' in Australia, after the fish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.49.142.197 (talk) 13:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Origins

I'm sure there are about a million people who claim to have "invented" the shocker, but could there be a verifiable source concerning the origin of the gesture? Secondly...has anyone actually ever Tried the shocker? Do women like it? I see the gesture a lot, but in reality I think it's kind of impractical (sexually speaking). You can't ask your partner if she wants the shocker...that's the whole point! it's the SHOCKer. I tried it on my girlfriend once and she FREAKED (and I don't mean in a good way).Antimatter---talk--- 06:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the shocker was invented my www.collegehumor.com, but I can't find proof. True, there's a million guys out there claiming it was their idea. I'm in canada, and alot of people I know do know what the shocker is, so it's pop culture reference is spreading. We do need to find it's history and origins, tho.T.o.anon84 18:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some searching on the origins(as that's why I came to this article in the first place). I couldn't find anything verifiable. I suppose It will never be known, like who first uddered "pardon my french" or who first called the baseball A-RodT.o.anon84 04:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's been around far longer than 1999 (when CollegeHumor was established), so that idea definitely is false. нмŵוτн τ 01:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm 34 yrs old and we were throwing the shocker in college back in 1993. I still have a picture with a couple of buddies from 1994 as evidence. So it must have been around earlier than that. I'd love to see some research..... Domn8r59 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Domn8r59 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

think some kid did it on conan obrien once. conan thought it was a gang sign at first —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.30.187.161 (talk) 14:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LOL, your g/f actually freaked out! Usually, people are too timid to get mad in bed. Maybe there was just too much shock factor in your shocker. I've been using it for years now, and just recently stumbled on this site. The ring finger has to be curled back to ovoid the perenium (taint). As long as you make it seem like an accident (sort of like the booby brush) you can get away with it. As for who invented the shocker, I'm sure even the ancient Romans used it =P Paskari (talk) 12:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Variations

So my new girlfriend (lucky me, huh!) mentioned that there were variations on this theme for every hand configuration. I think this would be a decent addition to this page. I believe the original picture with the titles is on collegehumor.com: http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1750050. The titles are Teaser, Pleaser, Shocker, Spocker, Rocker, and Showstopper. Seems they're missing a few configurations (anal only, four in the vagina, fisting, anal fisting, double fisting, etc.) but they do cover what could be considered the more practical configurations/variations of the theme. 707l7r57 (talk) 00:05, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bush

GW Bush unwittingly making the gesture, plus a presumably public domain photo: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/11/images/20081112_d-0077-5-515h.html Modest Genius ^talk 19:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He's most likely doing the Arizona Sun Devils "pitchfork" (see mention in article). OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It could probably be worked in as an example of what is not a shocker, and demonstrating that the fingers must be placed together. —Sladen (talk) 01:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Revised archive link, for anyone who cares: [2].. Sincerely, your bemused (and slightly horrified ) WikiGnome Jimw338 (talk) 17:41, 25 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

The page has been protected because of repeat "haha, Bush did the shocker" insertions. Let's clarify this: this is the Arizona State University pitchfork. Note the separation of all fingers. As illustrated on the Shocker page, the index and middle fingers are placed together. Class dismissed. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Pitchfork (hand gesture) for more information to anyone that still does not understand. Cardsplayer4life (talk) 10:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

Anyone know for sure where the name came from? I know that the Wichita State Shockers use a gesture very much like this (with the thumb extended, it looks like a W). If not, it's a pretty cool coincidence that a team called the Shockers uses a hand gesture called the shocker that was named independently. -skylights76 (talk) 20:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Popular culture section

Pop culture policy suggests that these sections be carefully source additions, and not devolve into trivia and fancruft. It also states, However, these sections can attract non-notable entries, especially when they are in list format, and should be carefully maintained. Carefully curating these sections (if we have them at all) means excluding references to non-notable media and entertainers. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, following that reasoning, why the inclusion of the rap lyrics? As the word "shocker" is uttered nowhere in the song, it requires the editor to use synthesis to connect the word to the description.

Frankly, if we are going to be this stringent, I suggest we purge every instance of 'Occurrences in culture' unless it explicitly uses the word shocker with defining characteristics. As it is, I am not seeing that. I'll wait for a response, but understand that without incredibly convincing arguments otherwise, there doesn't seem a valid reason to retain it. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 06:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scrapping this (and any) pop culture/trivia section will draw no objections from me. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:21, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Sharksaredangerous (talk) 17:40, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

West Coast sign

If you just spread your index and middle finger (while DISPLAYING the gesture, not actually performing the act, obviously), it becomes a W, signifying alliance to the West Coast. So I'm pretty sure that it is easy to accidentally do the shocker gesture, right? 24.189.87.160 (talk) 23:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Thumb

The way I learned this, in the mid-90s, was with the thumb extended. THAT was the shocker. More of an electric shock than a shock of surprise. College Humor sort of pioneered the thumbless shocker (in my awareness), but it was always slightly annoying to my "real" shocker. No one else has this definition? Mtkoan (talk) 00:53, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Broken link

The reference number four contains the link "Picking Splinters March's Ls & Ws", which leads to 404. The reference should either be removed or the link corrected. Anyone? --White rotten rabbit (talk) 08:45, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most famous case(?) : Hanover High School

I'm surprised this isn't mentioned-- I had been under the impression this was the origin of the shocker, though now I think I was wrong, as I don't see it claimed that this was the gesture's origin, and from other comments, it sounds like it appeared earlier elsewhere.

Rotten.com article about the Hanover High School shocker controversy

Quick summary: In 2000, 34 students were told all yearbook photos in which they appeared doing the shocker would be retaken-- not just without them doing the shocker, but without the offending students appearing whatsoever... and at their expense. They'd also have to do community service, and absence from that service would mean not receiving their diplomas. Parents were so outraged with this punishment that the principal who imposed it eventually resigned. The hands doing the shocker were simply airbrushed out of the photos. M-1 (talk) 21:52, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Archive link: [3] Jimw338 (talk) 17:45, 25 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Use in Christian iconography

Wasn't this gesture originally a traditional Orthodox Christian sign of blessing used in icons? Examples:

Saint Simeon Nemanja making the sign

Saint Nazary Valaamsky making the sign

Saint Nicholas making the sign

Jesus making the sign

Jesus making the sign again

And again

Should it be mentioned, if nothing else, that this gesture has very different older meanings than the one currently described in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.189.4.93 (talk) 03:21, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Buddhist Mudra

There's a buddhist handgesture that looks similar in principle. The right hand's ringfinger touches the tip of the thumb (forming a circle), with middle- and indexfinger held together and straight and the pinky also straight. The hand is hold at shoulder level. If my memory serves right, it should be the "Gesture of Discord" or "Kartari". ––85.178.187.141 (talk) 17:43, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Popular culture section

I have twice removed the popular culture section. The first time it was sourced to an unreliable source. It was put back with the comment that three reliable sources were added. All three sources said the same thing, that according to the unreliable source this happened. The according to in the three sources make then unreliable for this information. We would need a reliable source to say it happened. -- GB fan 22:09, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not quite sure how this source isn't valid. I thought that fairly obvious information was accepted on Wikipedia. Steven Tyler himself (verifiable) posted a tweet on twitter about the situation... Hawkeye75 (talk) 22:56, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article you linked to above says "According to the Inside the Magic site," It isn't Billboard saying this, if it was then it would be a reliable source. The whole thing is attributed to a single non reliable source. -- GB fan 23:02, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Inside The Magic is a valid source since it's "been featured in the Orlando Sentinel, on FOX35 and Local 6 news in Orlando, and won Best Best Produced Podcast in the 2011 Podcast Awards". There "articles, photos, and videos have been referenced and linked to by popular web sites and news outlets including LA Times, New York Times, Fox News, USA Today, Yahoo!, MSN, Huffington Post, Boing Boing, and even Perez Hilton." read more here. Hawkeye75 (talk) 23:14, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is a self published website with no editorial oversight. It is not a reliable source. -- GB fan 23:21, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 2016

I have removed all three links, making this article up for speedy deletion. The first link is corrupt. The second link is an author's opinions, and not facts (Wikipedia:Neutral point of view). The third link is invalid per WP:RSSELF, as it is a self-published book. Hawkeye75 (talk) 22:53, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the sources does not make the article eligible for speedy deletion. -- GB fan 22:57, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry that was not the context I meant to push. But WP:IRS claims "If no reliable sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." Hawkeye75 (talk) 23:00, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a reason to WP:PROD or WP:AFD the article but not speedy delete it. I have been around long enough to know the reasons to keep or delete an article. -- GB fan 23:04, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first source still exists; it appears that the newspaper's archives are not currently working. It is not "corrupt", and there is no reason to remove it. The second source is acceptable per WP:IRS. NPOV applies to content, not sources. The third source is questionable and may require further review. Regards, James (^talk/_contribs) 23:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've provided an archived version of the first source and removed the third source as self-published. Regards, James (^talk/_contribs) 23:47, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Shocker (hand gesture" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Shocker (hand gesture and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 27#Shocker (hand gesture until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 19:20, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]