Talk:Shedim

Proper

Isn't it more properly spelled and pronounced "Shadim" or "Shaydim"?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.242.208 (talk) 06:10, 2006 September 8 (UTC)

No -- "sheidim" would be better.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.237.8.213 (talk) 00:34, 2008 July 11 (UTC)

Satan

Okay - first, Satan is never equated with the serpent in Eden in scripture. Second, isn't the "Hebrew Bible" called the Torah? I am "being bold" and editing that paragraph and provide this as my rationale here. 72.49.43.222 (talk) 16:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The word "shedim" is likewise used in the popular tabletop RPG Shadowrun to refer to a type of spirit that inhabits the bodies of the dead or astrally projecting magicians. These "zombies" are not unlike the stereotypical movie zombies, except that destroying the body doesn't destroy the spirit-parasite and they aren't necessarily cannibalistic, though some do eat their victims. A variant, known as master shedim, can resurrect a dead body to full life and absorb the body's memories so as to better infiltrate living society. Both types are hostile to the living and to other spirits. They were first introduced in the supplement Year of the Comet, set in 2061, and the word was described as being Hebrew for "undead" in that book. It was later revealed in Shadows of Asia that the first confirmed shedim sightings were made in 2036 in Jerusalem. It's possible the legend that God started them, intending them to be humans, and leaving them unfinished when He rested on Shabbat and leaving them so to demonstrate all works must be considered complete by then is one explanation for the word being used in the game. Their hazy appearance in the astral plane and need to steal a body or suffer evanescence certainly fits with the legends that they are unfinished beings. This follows the running theme that legends are not really legends but facts, distorted by time and the loss of knowledge as well as misunderstandings of what many paranormal entities really are.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.95.26 (talk) 01:22, 2013 April 22 (UTC)

Removed this from article

This ungrammatical and unsourced passage, rife with misspellings and improper use of punctuation, was tacked onto an existing paragraph in such a way as to suggest an editor who doesn't understand how wiki formatting (or writing in general) works.

Among the Muslim nations of the Middle east. the shedim are sometimes identified with the djinn especially in muslim folklore concerning King Solomon see pages 37-38 of the book Legends of the Fire Spirits: jinn and genies from arabia to zanzibar by Robert Lebling.

If someone has a proper source citation for these claims and wants to write it correctly, please do so. 12.233.146.130 (talk) 19:05, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Demons

@User:VenusFeuerFalle: I added this category because the Shedim article appears in the List of theological demons. If it should not be in the category, it probably should not be in the list either. You decide. --Hob Gadling (talk) 04:49, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

@talk I udnerstan, thank you. Since the Wikiarticle for demons makes clear distinctions between Daimon (the ancient Greek less evil "demon") and the Demon (with the Christian connotation as an evil spirit) I would say that "Shedim" are not demons. I know that some academic source use the term "demon" in a broader sense of earthen spirits, while others refer to demons only as evil spirits. Morally ambivalent spirits are also referred to as "Genii" or compared to Daimon (just as in the article for the "Egypt Demon", in the corresponding section in the Demon-article, the author used demons exclusively for "evil" or "chaotic" spirits, while asserting, that others are rather comparable to Genii). Furthermore, "demons" are strongly associated as Christian-influenced perspective of spirits and the Shedim are "Jewish" spirits, thus I think the Shedim do not fit in the Category of demons. On the other hand, we have several non-Christian demons here, but most if not all, are related to "evil spirits" (for example, the Hinduistic Asura are within the category of demons, due to their malevolent attitute towards humanity and gods), while the jinn (which are similar morally ambivalent such as Shedim and Genii) are not and distinct from Shayatin (who in turn are identified as Demons, by scholars, who focus on Islamic "spiritology"). Therefore, I would rather remove the Shedim from the List of theological demons.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 14:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Shedu in Akkadian were not necessarily benevolent

From the article:

it was possibly a loan-word from Akkadian in which the word shedu referred to a protective, benevolent spirit.

This is inaccurate. Benevolent and protective Shedu are more familiar to us because they are depicted as guardians to Assyrian palaces and temples, but actual Akkadian texts describe malevolent Shedu as well.

In the Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago (1992), the entry for Shedu includes several descriptions of malevolent Shedu:

• great Shedu, Utukku, and Rabisu, who chase around after people in the squares

• [at whose command] the Shedu is driven away

• the evil Utukku demon, the evil Alu demon, [and] the Shedu that stand in the corners

• a Shedu will seize him

• The evil Shedu had a human head and hands

• The evil [portended] by an evil Shedu that flits about restlessly in the house of a man

IYY (talk) 20:15, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I can agree with that it is unlikely that Shedu were necessarily benevolent. Although and I think it is important that I mention it, am not that familar with the Shedu, rather with Islamic, Babylonian Judaism and Egypt demonology, but all of them have "demons" as guadians of sacred places (in Islam, it would be applied to the Pre-Islamic jinn. Islam itself degraded them), who can also be evil, if they are not tamed by a deity. With your sources provided here, I think it can be changed.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Akkadian Shedu vs. Šedim (Assyrian guard spirits)

It was possibly a loan-word from Akkadian in which the word shedu referred to a spirit which could be either protective or malevolent. The word may also derive from the Šedim (Assyrian guard spirits) as referenced according to lore "Azazel slept with Naamah and spawned Assyrian guard spirits known as šedim".

This reads as though it's presenting two separate hypotheses for the origin of that word, but the referenced text (The Encyclopedia of Demons and Demonology) is really just stating that the Šedim in Jewish mythology are the same as the Assyrian Šedu (same as the previous sentence). Note that šedim is a Hebrew pluralization and not the Akkadian/Assyrian pluralization of Šedu.

It's useful to mention their origins as the offspring of Azazel and Naamah, but this should be moved somewhere else in the article since it's not related to the word's etymology and the Assyrian/Akkadian Šedu (Shedu). The origin of that myth should also be mentioned (according to the article Naamah_(demon) it's the Zohar 3:76b-77a, but I haven't checked it yet).

So I would recommend moving the second sentence elsewhere in the article, but keeping the reference.

IYY (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Sacrifice

To me, this sentence is odd and doesn't seem encyclopedic.

Supposedly, sinful people sacrificed their daughters to the shedim, but it is unclear if the sacrifice consisted in the murdering of the victims or in the sexual satisfaction of the demons.

I'm going to do some research and replace it with something less ambiguous. I'm not sure why this is in the traits section either so I may move it. skarz (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)