Talk:List of place names of Scottish origin in the United States

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Wikipedia:No original research

The lion's share of the listed placenames are derived from surnames, not from Scottish placenames. For example the first name on the list, Anderson, Alabama, which according to the article on the town, was named after a certain Samuel Anderson in the 19th century.

One problem is that some surnames have numerous origins, like Anderson, so its dangerous to just assume that even the surname is 'Scottish'. Similarly, it's it's dangerous to assume generic placenames, like Preston, are Scottish, since they can be found throughout the UK.

So without a source, it's original research to assume that an American placename is named after a Scottish placename; that an American placename is named after a Scot; that an American placename is named after someone of Scottish descent; that an American placename is named after someone who bore/bears a 'Scottish' surname.

So I think the list should be culled. I think it would be a good idea to have a couple columns: one for the American placename, and one for the Scottish placename it was named after.

So here's an example for Tennessee, from Miller's Tennessee place names Indianna University Press, 2001.

Place name	Scottish place name
Afton, Greene County	probably River Afton, via Robert Burns' Flow Gently, Sweet Afton.^[1]
Kelso, Lincoln County	possibly from Kelso in Roxburghshire.^[2]
Kelso, Moore County	possibly from Kelso in Roxburghshire.^[2]
Lenox, Dyer County	The Lennox district.^[3]

--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:43, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed -- although I just recently added a placename that was named for a person rather than a place. I found this list, in fact, while looking for a list of places in the U.S. that had been named for Scottish places. Finding instead a list of places bearing Scottish (and Irish, and ambiguous) surnames, or having the same words as were used as surnames in Scotland (Black Rock? Seriously?), or containing the words "glen" or "loch," I figured I had at least as good a claim.

If someone has the spare time to go reorganize the page and check names against Scottish place names already listed in the wiki, that would be a good first step. ak4mc (talk) 17:55, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone, namely User:Pattycaledonia seems to have spent 4 years adding random lists of names of places (scoured from maps and gazetteers) that sound vaguely Scottish. I can't see what use that is to anyone. I'd suggest a starting point would be to remove any names that don't have a Wikipedia article - we don't even know these exist, let alone the derivation of their names! Sionk (talk) 22:05, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've started the 'cull' of the names added en-masse by User:Pattycaledonia. They're unverified and often just plain wrong. Someone needs to clarify the inclusion criteria too - it's unlikely we'll ever have proof of whether the names were "applied to parts of the United States by Scottish emigrants or explorers". Sionk (talk) 22:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, there's no original research allowed. However, before deleting or altering stuff willy-nilly you should locate some references yourself, preferably in print as someone has mentioned.--MacRùsgail (talk) 17:03, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The onus is on someone to prove these additions are valid, not to prove they are not valid. How do you prove a negative? It is clear from the edit summary of the person that added the content that they were misunderstanding the purpose of this list article. They were comparing a list of place names in a Kentucky gazetteer with a list of Scottish surnames and places in Scotland. One of the states I tackled first was Kentucky, because it was entirely added on this unsound basis, so the worst example I could see.

As already argued above by others, there's no point in adding a long list of every place that sounds vaguely Scottish, or has a similar name to a place in Scotland. Even many of the current bluelinked additions make it clear they are not named after a Scottish place or Scottish person.

If you're arguing that this article should list every place in the USA that sounds a bit Scottish, then I would nominate it for deletion as being entirely pointless and unencyclopedic. Sionk (talk) 18:59, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is basically licenced vandalism. There are now no entries in the Kentucky section. Useless. Idiot.-MacRùsgail (talk) 12:24, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your contribution is entirely negative, it adds nothing to the article, and in fact detracts from it. Soon we will have an empty page which is of bugger all use to anyone. Don't just subtract, try ADDING.

Some similarly minded eejit went and destroyed a list of British people of Indian descent. I wondered why there were only three or four folk on it, and discovered going through the history that someone like you had taken a wrecking ball to it.

Am editing from a phone so excuse formatting problems.-MacRùsgail (talk) 23:04, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than throw insults, why don't you add something constructive yourself, rather than extraordinary long lists of random and uninformative names? As you were the original author, what was your intention? The inclusion criteria is extremely vague. Maybe a way forward would be to improve the inclusion criteria. Dropping the "by Scottish emigrants or explorers" would be a start, because often the person who gave the name will not be known. Sionk (talk) 23:24, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Except the main problem here is your personal behaviour. The result of your "editing" shall be something even less useful than before, which is frankly against the spirit of Wikipedia, which is the democratisation of information. Some of the stuff can go, for sure, but you want to destroy nearly all of it.

By the way, shoving in web links as references is also incredibly useless, as most webpages have a lifespan which can be measured in months, or even years, but rarely decades.--MacRùsgail (talk) 16:52, 7 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This page is now appalling. Thank Slonk. Just don't go into a china shop any time soon.-MacRùsgail (talk) 18:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take it as a compliment! It was utterly appalling before I started. It is now a bit less appalling, but I agree it remains overall appalling and quite useless. You don't seem to understand that Wikipedia is not for long lists of random place names. Sionk (talk) 03:45, 10 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's worse than it was before. That's my point. It's not a list of random names.--MacRùsgail (talk) 18:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Miller, Larry M. (2001), Tennessee place names, Indiana University Press, p. 3, ISBN 0-253-21478-5
^ ^a ^b Miller, Larry M. (2001), Tennessee place names, Indiana University Press, p. 112, ISBN 0-253-21478-5
^ Miller, Larry M. (2001), Tennessee place names, Indiana University Press, p. 121, ISBN 0-253-21478-5

Cat

As the cat is about to be deleted, here was the content:

   Aberdeen, Florida
   Aberdeen, Georgia
   Aberdeen, Idaho
   Aberdeen, Maryland
   Aberdeen, Mississippi
   Aberdeen, North Carolina
   Aberdeen, Ohio
   Aberdeen, South Dakota
   Aberdeen, Washington
   Aberdeen, West Virginia
   Argyle (village), New York
   Argyle Township, Michigan
   Argyle, Georgia
   Argyle, Illinois
   Argyle, Iowa
   Argyle, Maine
   Argyle, Missouri
   Argyle, New York
   Argyle, Utah

A cont.

   Argyle, West Virginia

C

   Caledonia Township, Alcona County, Michigan
   Caledonia Township, Kent County, Michigan
   Caledonia Township, Shiawassee County, Michigan
   Caledonia, Illinois

D

   Dumbarton, Virginia
   Dunbarton, California
   Dunbarton, New Hampshire
   Dunbarton, Wisconsin
   Dunedin, Florida

E

   Edinboro, Pennsylvania
   Edinburg, Maine
   Edinburgh, Indiana

G

   Glasgow, Delaware
   Glasgow, Illinois
   Glasgow, Kentucky
   Glasgow, Missouri
   Glasgow, Montana
   Glasgow, Pennsylvania

G cont.

   Glasgow, Virginia
   Glasgow, West Virginia

I

   Inverness Highlands North, Florida
   Inverness Highlands South, Florida
   Inverness Township, Michigan
   Inverness, Bullock County, Alabama
   Inverness, California
   Inverness, Florida
   Inverness, Illinois
   Inverness, Mississippi
   Inverness, Montana
   Inverness, Shelby County, Alabama

L

   Lanark, West Virginia

S

   Scotia, Nebraska
   Scotia, New York
   Scotia, Pennsylvania
   Scotia, South Carolina

--Mais oui! (talk) 02:48, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Names not of Scottish descent rv

Brighton (LOL)
Derry (LOL)
Hibernia (LOL)
Kelly
Lee
St. (or Saint) Johns
St. (or Saint) Marys
St. (or Saint) Michaels (misspelled as Micheals)
Salisbury -- English
Springfield -- roots in Springfield Essex, England

There are some others, but these are the primaries. Some are absurd (Kelly, Derry). Quis separabit? 22:21, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Most are absurd, of course. The vast majority were added between 2009 and 2013 by comparing US gazetteers with maps of Scotland. Plainly daft. I started to revert some of them but life is too short to tackle all 51 states! Sionk (talk) 02:57, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Sionk -- er, 51 states? Quis separabit? 02:59, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'll hold my hands up to that one. but you get my drift - loads of them :) Sionk (talk) 03:03, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

Alot of these place-names are of Irish origins not scottish.

This article hasn't been properly sourced. I will be going through them and seeing which ones are actually Scottish later.

Completely agree. Most have been added on the flimsiest pretext, often because they sound a bit Scottish. Good luck with your clean-up efforts. Sionk (talk) 13:43, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[Miller3-1] Miller, Larry M. (2001), Tennessee place names, Indiana University Press, p. 3, ISBN 0-253-21478-5

[Miller112-2] Miller, Larry M. (2001), Tennessee place names, Indiana University Press, p. 112, ISBN 0-253-21478-5

[Miller121-3] Miller, Larry M. (2001), Tennessee place names, Indiana University Press, p. 121, ISBN 0-253-21478-5

[1]

[2]

[3]