Talk:Sarah Rapelje

removing foreign references

Someone removed this information :

(Catherine Trigault), from a French Huguenot family, and her husband Joris Jansen Rapelje (Georges Rapailler), later a member of the Council of Twelve Men.

Saying this seemed to be self published. Seems true (Proust also self-published himself).

Trico is not a French form : it must end in -au , -eau, or by one or more consonants (silent by now), viz. aut, aud, ault, oz... It is really an eye-sore to see this name spelled as Trico.

In Haarlem (whence Catherine came) at the same time there is trace of a Philippe Trico in the Walloon Church, also named Trigault. Two differently spelt cognate surnames in the same small Church?

http://www.stipak.com/vanderveer/maria/bios/5.HTM

«Thanks to Dr. G.J. van Amerongen in Haarlem, the records of Haarlem for this time period were checked to see if any members of the Trico family could be found. There was only one, a Philippe Trico married to a Sara Janis. This couple had five children baptized with the surname Tricot or Triquot in the Walloon Church of Haarlem: Abraham on 5 Nov. 1628; Jeanne on 24 Feb. 1630; Jaques on 3 Dec. 1634; Jean on 15 June 1636; and Louis on 20 March 1639. One burial with this name was recorded in Haarlem; on 27 August 1656 "Philips Trigault" was buried in Haarlem. (72, fol. 140v)

There is no evidence that this Philippe Tricot/Triquot/Trigault was the brother of Catalina Trico. However, we do have Marie Flamen's stated wish that in the event that her mother predeceased her, Marie wanted 1,000 carolus guilders to be paid to Marie's "brothers and sisters in equal parts." Was Marie's brother a Flamen brother or a Trico half-brother? We know that her half-sisters were Catalina and Margriet Trico. Did she have more than two?» —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.143.217.180 (talk) 18:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

The source you cite above is not a reliable source per wikipedia standards. It's a genealogy website, and its sourcing is unclear. Do you have anything on any of this from a book that you can cite, or a magazine article, or anything of that nature. Thanks. MarmadukePercy (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

No, could you look for the book? Why remove any hint that this may be the case? How can people cooperate when any hint is systematically removed?The other source -- in French -- which you did not like any more, also mentioned Pim van Nieuwenhuizen (check spelling) as the genealogist who actually checked the records and published (ah, paper!) an article on it.

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Most of this article about this interesting woman, the first child born to European parents in the present-day New York State consists of a long excerpt from one source. I'm a bit unclear about where this information comes from. Anyone have any idea?MarmadukePercy (talk) 01:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to clean this up at some point. She's actually a pretty fascinating character, and her history is well delineated in the wonderful Russell Shorto book The Island at the Center of the World. MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I revised the lead a little bit, but yes, the sources already cited in this article would require the books to fully examine her history. :-)Spring12 (talk) 21:21, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I just added a ref to an article in Newsday about her as well as her extended family. Regards, MarmadukePercy (talk) 21:30, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Note that the Newsday piece addresses the question of whether Sarah was the first child born of European parentage in New Netherland and concludes, based on excellent sources, that she was: "Was Sarah the first European baby born in what is now New York State? Yes, according to the Dutch records. Specifically, Volume III of the 19th Century Documentary History of New York, which states that her mother was the 'first white woman' to live in what is today Albany. When Sarah's mother was older and living on Long Island, one document referred to her as 'the mother of New York.' 'The Rapelje baby is regarded as the first,' said Charles Gehring, director of the Albany-based New Netherland Project, a private effort to document New York's Dutch history." Regards, MarmadukePercy (talk) 21:44, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I've added all the refs here, and the external links as well. The article desperately needs a rewrite as it's impenetrable. I will try to get to it in a couple of days. MarmadukePercy (talk) 00:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

From main article

'In 1639, Hans Hansen Bergen married SARAH, daughter of Jores (George) jfansen Rapalie, (since spelled Rapalje and Rapalye,) born according to the family record on the 9th day of June, 1625, and who was the first white female child of European parentage born in the colony of New Netherland, which then covered the present states of New York, New Jersey, and a portion of Connecticut[1]. The early historians of this state and locality, led astray by a petition presented by her, April 4, 1656 (when she resided at the Waaleboght), to the governor and council, for some meadows, in which she states that she is the first born Christian daughter in New Netherland, assert that she was born at the Waaleboght. Judge Benson in his writings even ventures to describe the house where this took place." He says: "On the point of land formed by the cove in Brooklyn, known as the Waaleboght, lying on its westerly side, was built the first house, a one-story log house, on Long Island, and inhabited by Joris Jansen Rapalie, one of the first white settlers on the island, and in which was born Sarah Rapalie, the first white child of European parentage born in the state.

In this, if there is any truth in the depositions of Catalyn or Catalyntie Trico (daughter of Jeronomis Trico of Paris), Sarah's mother (a copy of which may be seen on pages 49, 50, and 51 of vol. 3 of New York Documentary History), they are clearly mistaken. In her deposition taken on the 14th day of February, 1684-5, before Col. Thomas Dongan, governor of the province, she states that she came over in 1623 or 1624, to the best of her remembrance. In the other, taken at her house on Long Island, in the Wale Bought this 17th "day of October, 1688," before William Morris, justice of the peace, she states that she was aged about 83 years, and was born at Paris; that in 1623 she came to this country in the ship Unity, commanded by Arien Jorise, that as soon as they came to "Mannatans," now called New York, they sent two families and six men to "harford River," two families and six men to Delaware River, eight men they left at New York to take possession, and the rest of the passengers, about eighteen families, went with the ship as far as Albany, then called "Fort Orangie." That deponent lived in Albany three years, that in 1626 she came from Albany and settled in New York, where she lived afterwards for many years, and then came to Long Island where she now lives.

Sarah, therefore, undoubtedly was born at Albany instead of the Waaleboght, and was probably married before she removed to Long Island, there being no reason to suppose that she resided there when a single woman, without her parents.

[1] Until the publication, by the Long Island Historical Society, in 1867, of the Hon. H. C. Murphy's translation of the interesting journal of Dankers and Sluyter (disciples of De Labadie), who visited this country in 1679 and 80, which journal he obtained while minister of the United States at the Hague, it was supposed that Sarah was the first born child of European ancestry in this state; but from their evidence it appears that John Vigne was entitled to the honor, having been born at New Amsterdam in 1614, eleven years before Sarah. Jan or John Vigne was the son of Guelyn Vigne and Ariantje Cuvilje, his mother owning a farm in the vicinity of the present Wall and Pearl streets, on which there was a windmill standing on a hill near the corner of Wall and Pearl streets. This farm, which was one of if not the oldest cultivated on the island was, after the death of his parents, occupied by Jan who, in addition to farming, carried on a brewery and kept his windmill at work. His mother, Ariantje, died about 1648, and he had three sisters, Maria, who m. Abram Verplank, Christina m. Dirck Volckerson, of Bushwick, and Rachel m. Cornells Van Tienhoven. He died in 1691, having been twice married, the last time, Feb. 15, 1681, to Wieshe Haytcs, leaving no issue of which any account has been seen. In 1657, he was admitted to the rights of a great burgher, held the office of schcpcn for several years, and June 4,1663, obtained a patent from Director Stuyvesant for a tract of meadows lying easterly of the town of Bergen, in New Jersey.'

The claim about Jean Vigne being the first born in New Netherlands is directly contradicted by Russell Shorto in his book The Island at the Center of the World, cited as a source. Shorto based his statement on several years of examining the original Dutch records at Albany. The claim is also refuted by the New Netherlands Project, also cited as a source. MarmadukePercy (talk) 19:01, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

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