Talk:Sanga-Sanga

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Islands

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Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. The evidence presented below points to Sanga-Sanga being the more used English name of this island. --regentspark (comment) 18:38, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sanga-Sanga (island) → Sanga-Sanga Island – Like for all the others in Category:Islands of Mindanao. --Relisted Tyrol5 [Talk] 02:10, 11 January 2013 (UTC) AsianGeographer (talk) 10:49, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The proposer has not given any evidence that Sanga-Sanga Island is the usual form in English. There would be a case for moving the disambiguation page to Sanga-Sanga (disambiguation), but we should probably get rid of it completely (we do not usually have a disambiguation page when there are only three articles: we have hatnotes instead). Clearly, the island is the Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC, given that the other articles are an airport and a non-existent article on a Production Sharing Contract area (whatever that may be). Skinsmoke (talk) 10:54, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Actually, "xxx Island" is the common form in Philippine English for most islands, excluding large islands (unless there's a need to disambiguate) and provinces contiguous with a single island (such as Marinduque, Camiguin and Catanduanes). For example: Tablas Island, Lubang Island, Batan Island, etc. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 10:23, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: That may be the case, but you need to provide evidence that the proposed form is the common name for this island. I'm quite open to the argument that we should use the form common in Philippine English, due to strong ties of the article to the Philippines. Skinsmoke (talk) 09:14, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support per consistency WP:CRITERIA. --BDD (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Consistency should not be used to justify a phrase that is not the norm. An Advanced Google search for Sanga-Sanga Island in English of websites in the Philippines (to narrow the search to Philippine English) shows 2,380 hits (page through to the last result and you get 109 unduplicated results). A similar search for Sanga-Sanga gives 7,890 hits (610 unduplicated hits). That seems to indicate that, despite the assertion that "xxx Island" is the common form in Philippine English for most islands, it does not apply in this particular case, and that in 82 per cent of cases the Island is not included in the name, even in the Philippines. I'm open to an argument on the detailed results (I haven't had time to look at them too closely), but the argument needs to be made to justify this move. So far, the only justification forthcoming appears to be "I prefer it that way". Skinsmoke (talk) 08:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: While Google's Ngram Viewer doesn't support Philippine English specifically, the graphs for All English, American English and British English make it absolutely clear that "Sanga Sanga" is now and has throughout history been the proper name for this island, regardless of which English is used. Facts should dictate, and the facts prove that "82%", as derived by Skinsmoke, is actually a conservative number. "Consistency" is the least relevant criterion when it is opposed by "precision", "conciseness", "recognizability" and "naturalness" (all as defined by WP:CRITERIA). Grollτech (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Move ~~to Sanga Sanga.~~ Sanga-Sanga already redirects to the island; the only other entry on the dab page is Sanga Sanga Airport, which isn't ambiguous and can be easily linked through a hat note or article text per WP:TWODABS anyway.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:52, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As there's now an (unsourced) article for Sanga Sanga district, I recommend moving this article to Sanga Sanga Island. A quick Google books search shows the name is common,[1] and it serves as natural disambiguation which is preferable to the parenthetical.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: ~~I would support Cúchullain's suggestion.~~ Skinsmoke (talk) 05:57, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've created a stub for the other Sanga Sanga - it's a (sub)district in Indonesia. This is what the original disambig entry about a "Production Sharing Contract Area" (which I agree is gibberish!) referred to: I just forgot to come back and do further work to tidy the disabig up, as one tends to. If anyone wants to expand it, there's a page on the Indonesian Wikipedia which has plenty of information about it, and which Google Translate did a very good job of translating. The stub takes a few bare facts from there, but looks like it could easily be expanded to Start Class just from this one source alone. Sorry if that throws a spanner in the works of the move discussion. SP-KP (talk) 16:42, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It would have been better if you'd provided reliable sources before starting the stub, since it's hard to tell if there's really a primary topic or not. However, the discussion will sort itself out.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I still have a problem with moving to a name that is not supported by 82 per cent of the hits on the Advanced Google search. What's wrong with the fairly obvious solution of moving Sanga-Sanga (island) to Sanga-Sanga, Philippines and moving Sanga Sanga district to Sanga Sanga, Indonesia? That would, after all, be the normal way we would disambiguate between two places in different countries. The only other thing in the Philippines to disambiguate from is the airport, and that has a natural disambiguator (Airport) in its name. Incidentally, the article at Bongao, Tawi-Tawi suggests that Sanga-Sanga (or Sanga-sanga) is a town and barangay (community, or parish) as well as an island, and part of the municipality of Bongao. Apart from the airport, it appears to also host a university. Skinsmoke (talk) 06:37, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.