Talk:Afon Glaslyn

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
River Glaslyn → Afon Glaslyn — The river is more often referred to in English texts by its Welsh name. Google hits show 3,030 hits for Afon Glaslyn and just 1,830 for River Glaslyn. Skinsmoke (talk) 23:02, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Even Google Maps (see immediately south of Porthmadog) has it as Afon Glaslyn. And they aren't exactly known for being Cymraeg-centric. Other rivers are known by their Welsh names on Wikipedia, where appropriate, with no problems AFAIK. Redirects will sort it. Daicaregos (talk) 23:18, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose until evidence of usage in English is presented; see WP:NCGN#Widely accepted name for six sorts of evidence (actually seven, but reliable sources rarely discuss this sort of question, so the best evidence is rarely available). Maps are rarely trustworthy on this sort of question, especially if the local authority puts up signs in Welsh; the interest in having the tourist able to follow the road signs trumps their commitment to English. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support. Smaller rivers are usually given as afon by the OS. I fail to see the logic of the above argument either - "Maps are rarely trustworthy on this sort of question, especially if the local authority puts up signs in Welsh; the interest in having the tourist able to follow the road signs trumps their commitment to English." Are you suggesting that this accounts for the OS's use of afon rather than river for hundreds of other rivers and streams in Wales as well, most of which are unlikely to be even seen by the average tourist let alone appear on road signs? Enaidmawr (talk) 23:07, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
  • To convince me, you need merely supply evidence that this is customary English usage in prose. There are six classes of data behind the link; maps are intentionally omitted, because they tend to use Ostrov or Isola where English uses Island. Welsh is no different than Russian or Italian. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:22, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
    • The argument about Ordnance Survey doesn't really stack up : they use River Taff, River Tawe and River Neath but use Afon Glaslyn and Afon Dwyryd. Welsh is somewhat different from Russian and Italian as Wales is a country where the majority of the population speak English. Evidence of its customary English usage in prose follows :-

The Afon Glaslyn is a river in Snowdonia, Gwynedd, North Wales. It has its source in Llyn Glaslyn, a lake in a cwm on the eastern slopes of Snowdon. The Afon Glaslyn then passes through Llyn Llydaw on it's way to the Glaslyn Estuary from Wales Directory

The plan was to now follow the Afon Glaslyn upstream to the derelict railway tunnels and Pass of Aberglaslyn and then take a left fork over the Cwm Bychan mountain pass to our starting point at Llyn Dinas. And so we found the river and proceeded to follow it upstream. from Walks in Snowdonia : Beddgelert Walk

Afon Glaslyn flows east from Llyn Llydaw below Snowdon, then turns southwest and flows to Beddgelert and its confluence with Afon Colwyn before turning south and flowing to the sea. Its catchment area covers much of the southeast and southern slopes of Snowdon. from Coventry City Council : Coventry Learning Gateway : A Study Of The Afon Glaslyn And Its Catchment

The Afon Glaslyn rises near the centre of the Snowdon massif and flows in a general southerly direction towards Tremadog Bay from Geography : An Integrated Approach by David Waugh

the right to enter upon part of the bank and half width of the bed of the Afon Glaslyn for all purposes connected with the construction and maintenance of rock armouring for erosion protection north of the existing Cambrian Coast Mainline Railway bridge across the Afon Glaslyn from Welsh Assembly Government : Access to Land

The Afon Glaslyn at Aberglaslyn is an example of a laterally stable channel confined by a 200 m deep gorge, where the size of the sediment currently occupying the channel is out of all proportion to anything transported by the present-day river from Fluvial Geomorphology of Great Britain by Kenneth John Gregory and A Werritty

This was the first time we had walked the path on the east bank of the Afon Glaslyn from Beddgelert to Nantmor. A notice states that the old railway tunnel further along is closed, and that walkers must follow the riverside path below. It also warns that this path is difficult in places, but in fact almost all of it is just a typical rocky path like many others, although in a couple of places where it negotiates external corners, metal rings are secured into the rock to assist particularly ultranervous people. from Backpacking in Britain : Yr Arddu and its Lakes

The Afon Glaslyn originates in the heart of Snowdon at Llyn Lydaw." from British White Water by Terry Storry

The PBSSR chose this route so a junction station could be constructed on the east side of the Afon Glaslyn for the proposed Betws-y-Coed and South Snowdon routes. from WHR : History of the NWNGR and PBSSR Route : The 1906 route around Beddgelert

The line runs above the fast-flowing Afon Glaslyn, the trackbed on a ledge cut into the rock, passing through two short tunnels before turning away from the river through a longer tunnel. from The Festiniog Railway Trust : The Welsh Highland Railway Project : The Route of the Welsh Highland Railway

Across Traeth Mawr, the scheme continues on embankment to the north of the Cambrian Coast Mainline Railway line, then crosses the Afon Glaslyn. from Welsh Assembly Government : The Fishguard to Bangor Trunk Road (A487) Porthmadog, Minffordd and Tremadog Bypss

North Wales Wildlife Trust manages mudflats, wet grasslands and brackish water that form this SSSI on the floodplains of Afon Glaslyn, Porthmadog. from British Garden Birds : Glaslyn Marshes

The National Trust has facilitated its own "access agreement" for the Afon Glaslyn. from Canoe Wales : Afon Glaslyn

Ashley Charlwood from the WCA said: "The WCA are supportive of the National Trust trying to increase access on the Afon Glaslyn but we have expressed our concerns in respect of how the upper river is being promoted. from Snowdonia-Active : Glaslyn Access Agreement

In an area bordered by Nantgwynant and the Llugwy valley to the north, the Lledr valley and Vale of Ffestiniog to the south, and the Afon Glaslyn to the west, there is some very fine walking country." from Best Walks in North Wales by Richard Sale

Skinsmoke (talk) 00:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks like the case has been made for a move. A show of hands for the proposed page move, River Glaslyn → Afon Glaslyn, please:

• Support. Daicaregos (talk) 08:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
  • You already supported above. Jafeluv (talk) 08:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Oops, just trying to move things along, I was. My bad, Daicaregos (talk) 08:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.