Talk:Ricardo Ferreira (soccer, born 1992)

Requested move 5 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Took a rather long time to see the argument fleshed out, but it was found that whether to use "football" or "soccer" has established policy and practice in being based on nationality instead of countries played in, so we should continue that.

The dual citizenship problem is clarified by WP:NCSP, where the player has to not be Canadian to be called a footballer. Since Ferreira is Canadian, "soccer" it is.

The opposers, who primarily argued that his Canadian-ness didn't count because he mostly played in Europe, look like "I don't like it" in comparison. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 02:07, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

---

Ricardo Ferreira (footballer, born 1992) → Ricardo Ferreira (soccer, born 1992) – Represents Canada (where he was born) internationally, after switching from Portugal. Per LANGVAR should probably move to soccer RedPatch (talk) 14:22, 5 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • C • L)} 16:32, 15 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:16, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. RedPatch (talk) 14:22, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support - born in Canada, represents Canada, so we use Canadian language. GiantSnowman 15:04, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 01:40, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Plays his club football in Europe. Has appeared precisely once for Canada. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:44, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment we've always gone by nationality not by where they play their club football. Otherwise all European players in North America would be called soccer players and vice veersa and we'd have to switch, whenever they change leagues. RedPatch (talk) 14:11, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
    • Except that few European footballers in North America have played for most of their careers in North America, whereas all his professional appearances bar one have been for European teams. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:26, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
      • Here are some examples of European players who played majority/all of career in North America and use footballer (because their nationality is European) instead of soccer (where they played): Jon Bakero (footballer, born 1996), João Moutinho (footballer, born 1998), Guillermo Delgado (footballer, born 1994), Joe Holland (footballer), Jack Elliott (footballer), Mauro Cichero (footballer, born 1995). RedPatch (talk) 00:33, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support as the match while playing for Canada was an official one, not a friendly. I'm not sure if "Ricardo Ferreira (soccer)" works just as well since there are no other soccer identifiers with that name. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 13:22, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Footballers are also soccer players! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:53, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose primarily played in Europe. BilledMammal (talk) 04:01, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
• Relister comment: The primary dispute of this RM is whether Ferreira, who seems to have always been a Canadian citizen and plays for Canada right now, can be sufficiently tied to Canada even though he played on many teams in non-Anglophone countries before this. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
  • Which per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(sportspeople)#Association_football_(soccer) says it is based on player's current nationality and not club teams past or present. RedPatch (talk) 18:50, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

    So let's look at Ferreira's citizenship situation again. It is known that he is born on Canadian soil; as Canada has jus soli automatic citizenship, he is absolutely surely Canadian. But I don't know what to do if he is a dual Portuguese-Canadian citizen, but the way the NC section you cited is structured seems to imply that the Canadian citizenship takes priority (i.e. if he is not Canadian etc., use "footballer", but if he is, use "soccer"). — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 00:04, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@RedPatch: Pinging you because I forgot at first. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 00:05, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@Mellohi!: He is a dual citizen, but WP:FOOTBALL says to go with their current national team as the basis for the WP:LANGVAR to be used, as you noted in the NC section I cited. Steven Vitoria and Stephen Eustaquio are the exact same situation as Ferreira. Born in Canada, spent most of childhood in Canada, went to Portugal to play club soccer, played for Portuguese youth national teams, then played for Canada's senior team. In both cases, their articles use Canadian English throughout the article as that is the national team they represent currently. This debate happens all the time because some editors just don't like the word 'soccer' at all. They don't have a disambiguator in the title due to no others with the name, but if they did it would be obvious which is to use the same LANGVAR as the article. Note the LANGVAR used throughout Ferreira's article already uses Canadian English (ie. soccer not football). Why would the title be inconsistent with that? (I also just added a comment above to refute the rationale about European players in North America which was said to be limited) RedPatch (talk) 00:17, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.