Talk:Rhett Allain

Personal

"Sometimes he takes things apart and can't put them back together." seems like a very strange thing to have in a wikipedia article. It sounds like a tagline or something.

Athleek123 (talk) 22:05, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

It appears to have been copied from one of his web site; I have removed it as unencyclopedic. Feel free to make changes like this yourself! Cheers a13ean (talk) 22:08, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I would if I had been casually browsing, but when I am patrolling new pages I try to use twinkle so I can patrol pages faster and keep the backlog clear. Athleek123 (talk) 04:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Allain's part in the DDWFTTW controversy

Why is it not allowed to include Allain's position on DDWFTTW in this article? Several other topics he commented on are mentioned here too. I added a well sourced paragraph: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rhett_Allain&diff=573055267&oldid=556468670 It was deleted by user a13ean, with the comment:

"RV OR and a personal attack in a BLP, none of the cited sources mention Allain)"

The claim by user a13ean that "none of the cited sources mention Allain" is simply false. Two of the sources are articles by Allain himself:

• http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2008/12/physics-and-directly-downwind-faster-than-the-wind-dwfttw-vehicles.php
• http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2010/05/08/it-is-good-to-be-wrong

The WIRED artice by Adam Fisher quotes Allain directly on page 4: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_fasterthanwind/4/

Another holdout is Allain, the Southeastern Louisiana physics professor (who, it should be noted, now blogs for Wired.com’s Wired Science network)...Allain, on the other hand, prefers to turn the tables, asking, “Why are all the downwinders so anxious for me to say it works? If it works, does it matter what I say?”

The other 3 sources are by scientists and scientific institutions who directly contradict Allain's position on DDWFTTW. Even if not mentioning Allain explicitly, they are part of the debate Allain engaged in. --Wikipedicus (talk) 07:08, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

The only mention of Allain outside of his own writing in this context is a single sentence in the wired article. It might be possible to write a single sentence based on the Wired article on this in the BLP, but your inclusion of "In 2010 Allain wrote a blog post explaining how important it is that one can admit being wrong" shows that this is nothing more than a personal attack, and WP:SYNTH. a13ean (talk) 16:44, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Here is my modified suggestion for this paragraph that avoids this issues:

In 2008 Allain rejected the concept of sailing dead downwind faster than the wind (DDWFTTW) as a hoax, stating that "this is the same situation as people trying to make energy from nothing". When the concept was demonstrated in practice by the Blackbird in 2010, Allain didn't offer further explanations and merely noted "If it works, does it matter what I say?".

Do you still see any problems with this version?--Wikipedicus (talk) 17:26, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

How about relying on only what's actually in the sources, and specifically relying on secondary sources I don't see Allain calling it a hoax, although he does seem to say that he doesn't think it should be possible (the article is not particularly coherent). This is the reason we don't rely on primary sources -- we get sucked into trying to interpret them. All we can say from the only secondary source -- the Wired article -- is something like "Allain suggested that DWFTTW vehicles would violate energy conservation, although it was later proven possible" a13ean (talk) 18:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok, lets drop the "hoax", but the "energy conservation violation" claim (and the rejection of the concept on this basis) is quite explicit and supported by the secondary source (WIRED) :

"Rhett Allain, a physicist at Southeastern Louisiana University and a blogger for ScienceBlogs, diagnosed what he called DDWFTTW’s “free energy” problem and concluded that “you can’t get something for nothing.”"

So I propose this version:

In 2008 Allain rejected the concept of sailing dead downwind faster than the wind (DDWFTTW) as a violation of conservation laws, stating that "this is the same situation as people trying to make energy from nothing". When the concept was demonstrated to work in practice by the Blackbird in 2010, Allain didn't offer further explanations and merely noted: "If it works, does it matter what I say?".

--Wikipedicus (talk) 19:18, 16 September 2013 (UTC)