Talk:Medieval Restorationism

Page was split from Restorationism. The term restorationism was used by Tuchman (see references) to describe the movement within the established church (Roman Catholic) prior to the Reformation. Some editors of the Restorationsim article disputed this fact, and given the focus on the late 18th century forward of that article, a split was made. Fremte (talk) 23:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that the dispute was not whether this term accurately describes the motives and self-description of the movements you are referring to. It does (the Restorationism article has always said so). The difference was, whether in English academic use, the term refers with notable frequency to a more specific phenomenon of the restorationist impulse: the Restoration movements of the 19th century: specifically, the Restoration Movement and the Mormon Restoration, but also numerous comparably motivated movements that, because of a supposed Great Apostasy, regard themselves as somewhat or entirely outside of the stream of historical continuity in which Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and trinitarian Protestantism regard themselves. — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 18:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I expect that some contributors to Restorationsim article have a commitment to one or other of the 'movements' listed. From a more orthodox perspective, some of these movements would not be defined as Christian at all, especially the Mormon movement you listed. But then I took philosophy of religion from a Canadian provincial university-affiliated liberal RC college -- a completely different cultural milieu, which also includes les idees francais-canadien. Thanks! Fremte (talk) 20:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Title

Do you think that perhaps "Restorationism (medieval)" might be better? — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 18:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm fine with that, if you think it is better. Fremte (talk) 20:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm just thinking that my suggestion is a little more flexible, in some contexts. Some of the groups have their origins in the middle ages have continued into the present, but they are not "middle ages restorationists" - only their founders are. However, someone might reasonably say that the founders and those who adhere to their pattern or call themselves by names that suggest succession from them, are all adherents to "medieval restorationism". See what I mean? — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 20:55, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

If you know how to do it, please do (I have never renamed an article), no quibble. I am taking medieval as more or less a synonym to middle ages, though follows in time sequence in typical writing and thinking to renaissance. To label it specifically in time, the present info is "late medieval". Possibly it would be reasonable to add in the other movements that were not simply co-existent heresies to origins of the RC Church, i.e., they were competitors not restorationist, e.g., Cathars don't belong, but Luddites do. Thanks. Fremte (talk) 21:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Would this cover millenarianism as well?

Just thinking of Norman Cohn's books 'Europe's Inner Demons' and 'The Pursuit of the Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages'. Mish (talk) 22:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I think that's best treated as a separate, but related, idea. There is an article on Millenarianism in general. EastTN (talk) 16:24, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist

A googling on "medieval restorationism" gives 19 hits, indicating that it is a descriptive noun phrase, not a term. I have a hard time understanding why it is these kinds of bogus articles so often occur on English Wikipedia – is it that the English language provides no means to distinguish between nominal phrases in general, and terms in particular? Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 09:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to have taken off as a term - many of the hits concern 19/20th century architecture or conservative Catholicism. But Reform movements in the medieval Western church or something would work. There's also Proto-Reformation, which is perhaps rather narrower. Or Proto-Protestants, narrower still. Both are used more widely. Johnbod (talk) 15:42, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

That's somewhat nearer the real topic of the article. I surfed some four hours to find a more proper term, but failed. What the medieval movements really did do, was not to explicitly propose restoration of the church to some early stage, but to attack the Catholic Church for its abuses then using its deviations from the Bible as argumentation. F.ex. Wyclif proposed a secular power takeover over the church property. If Tuchman really maintains that the disparate movements proposed a restoration (and at the same time a renewal (??)), then the article is about the general purification tendencies that from time to other occur in Christianity, not about a restoration movement. "Ism", here is not an ideological nor religious "ism", it's a simile for a recurring tendency. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 19:19, 26 February 2013 (UTC)