Talk:Redneck/Archive 6

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Archive 6

Something is missing

In the Popular Culture section, the 2nd paragraph refers to a redneck comedian, but makes no reference who is being refered to. Based on the footnote, it appears to be refering to Larry the Cable Guy. Also, if this is the case, there seems to be some disconnect with the last paragraph in this section. It seems that those two paragraphs should be together and there should be some reference to Larry the Cable Guy at the start of the second paragraph. Not knowing the author's intent, I prefer to leave it to him/her to edit it. Van Vidrine (talk) 15:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

took the deragatory out

It never started as deragatory it was just a saying like red coats, blue coats, leather necks and roughnecks. Tell them you are putting them down or degrading them and morst will show you what being put down and degrading is — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rics34 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Hatfield Clan image

I found a great image for redneck while interwiki-ing around. A historical insight into the country's character. I added it and even though I couldn't think of a caption thought it gave a good improvement to the article. It was reverted as non relevant. Any comments on this? SlightSmile 05:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Its not about being a "great" picture. How is this a representation of rednecks? Are you saying all the men in that photo were rednecks? This article is about a slang term and I don't see how that image belongs at all. It may or may not be a "historical insight into the countries character" but it has no place in this article and is unnecessary and irrelevant like I said. An image needs to convey information to the reader not just be there for aesthetics. The image does not give any insight into the redneck definition and should be displayed somewhere where it can be useful and convey needed information. Cadiomals (talk) 05:46, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

the Hatfields were upscale (in the local social structure) -- they're still around (one was Senator from oregon not long ago). rednecks are downscale. Rjensen (talk) 08:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The Hatfields weren't rednecks but actually upscale for that era, okay fine. I just want to clarify a couple things.

1. Tweaking - I should have specified: "historical insight into one aspect of the country's character".

2. I've had this argument with people in the past. I take strong exception to the philosophy that aesthetics is somehow unencyclopaedic. Case in point: Encyclopaedia Britannica was nice, pleasing to the eye - while Encyclopaedia Americana was a blob of text that nobody wanted to read. SlightSmile 18:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Images exist in Wikipedia both to be aesthetically pleasing and convey educational information. We aren't just going to add a nice little picture of a rose to this article because it looks nice, are we? Of course not. I understand your contribution was in good faith, and images are always welcome, but they have to be relevant and educational in the article/section they're in. Good day. Cadiomals (talk) 19:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

And a wonderful day to you. I wrote this up before seeing Cadiomals' post of 19:57.

On second reading I see Cadiomals is not saying that aesthetics is unencyclopaedic but that it must give info as well as being aesthetic, my mistake. That said, arguments could be made why it is relevent even if they were ahead of their time and also it does not have to be "necessary" to add value to an article. SlightSmile 20:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

History

Redneck comes from the American war of independence in 1776. The southern Presbyterian minister who preached against King George III wore red collars. King George called the, " those d------ redneck rebels" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.186.13 (talk) 23:47, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

that is not true. see OED Rjensen (talk) 23:55, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Remove the "immortality" part immediately.  ?

I have no idea why this is here, but it should be removed immediately...

"...white trash (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality)."

Everything in parenthesis should be removed, because it is absurd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LogicalCreator (talk • contribs) 11:11, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

That depends if you think the term says immortality, or immorality - the two being very different things. Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

The term "white trash" suggests immoral behavior, say the RS. Those folks are as immorTal as everyone else. Rjensen (talk) 00:34, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

As you, I actually thought it said that, at first. I'm a little tired.--Følelse (talk) 20:01, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 September 2012

I'd like to update/rewrite the article. The overtone for the whole article is extremely negitive and states that the term "redneck" is is somehow an insult. While it might be used as an insult by people who don't know any rednecks, and maybe was only used this way in times past in modern day use it can also be very possitive. Just look at the "Blue Collar Comedy Tour", anything by "Larry the Cable Guy", and music by Toby Keith. These are all self proclaimed rednecks who are proud to be part of a group of people who have traditional values, blue collar jobs, drive pickup trucks, etc... Rednecks make up the best part of this county according to millions. Thanks, Gabriel Gabrielbrow (talk) 22:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

You'll be able to edit this and other semi-protected articles when your account becomes autoconfirmed. That will happen after your account is at least 4 days old with at least 10 edits. It looks like your account is old enough now, but you need more edits. RudolfRed (talk) 22:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Gabriel, Theres also a new TV show called "Redneck Island" starting 11/10/2012, and redneck is not used in a derogatory way. Since the 1970's rednecks have "taken the name back" much in the way that homosexuals took back "queer".

Gabriel, I respectfully disagree. While I agree that there has been a significant attempt to re-appropriate the term by people who self identify as such, that doesn't mean that the term has lost it's stigma. Your example with the word "queer" is a case in point. Members of the gay community can use the term self-referentially without being insulting, but that is a privilege they have as a member of the group to whom the term refers. A heterosexual can't expect to refer to homosexuals as "queers" without giving offense. The same is true for "redneck." It takes a long time for a term to to be rehabilitated in society as a whole - much longer than it takes for people to begin embracing the term within the community referred to. 'Limey' has lost it's stigma, but according to wikipedia, "guido" hasn't yet, and that's one of the few such terms where I'm aware of people in the general population using it with an edpectation that it's not going to be thought inappropriate. I live in a midwestern medium sized city surrounded by farmland. I've occasionally heard local people call themselves "rednecks" in the way that you're talking about, but far more often I've heard it used by non-locals attending the college here, hand it's almost always preceded by the word "stupid". OckRaz ^talk 03:35, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion for Possible Improvement: Trailer Trash & Bubba

I was trying to explain to a non American what "redneck means." This article was extremely helpful in that regard and I learned many things I hadn't known. The mentions the related terms: cracker, hillbilly, and white trash. These were terms that came up in our conversation, but there were two more that aren't mentioned: bubbas and trailer trash. Slang & colloquialisms aren't something I know much about, but I believe these terms are related. I don't know anything about the origin of "bubba." Its use seems similar to "good ol' boy." "Trailer trash" obviously is a variation on "white trash" that came along after trailer parks became symbols of rural poverty. If you know a source for info on these terms it might make for a useful addition. OckRaz ^talk 04:09, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 January 2013

Please change "The term is used broadly to degrade working class and rural whites that are perceived by urban progressives to be insufficiently liberal." to "The term is used broadly to degrade working class and rural whites that are perceived by progressives to be insufficiently liberal." because assuming that all progressives are urban is a prejudiced assumption as there are rural progressives who use the term as well. 75.72.203.107 (talk) 04:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

the text does not assume anything--it follows Safire (the RS) who refers only to urban progressives. Rjensen (talk) 04:51, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Protection expired. RudolfRed (talk) 04:30, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

urban leftist ???

"urban leftist" is used in the article next to "social ecologist" but there's no reference to this term on Wiki. How do you define this newspeak gem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.71.175.47 (talk) 14:59, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Should it be linked with Appalachian American?

I suggest the redneck article have a link with a related article on Appalachian peoples, the subcultural group also widely portrayed as "rednecks", "hillbillies" and the like. A lot of residents in Appalachia might not like to be revered to as "rednecks". + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 08:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

The term is not specific to folks in the Appalachians. It is a much broader term and does not equate to one specific group or another. Eastcote (talk) 16:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Rednecks and hillbillies are not the same thing. People who use those terms for themselves know the difference. Its outsiders who have both turned those terms into slurs and confused / conflated the two. --50.149.180.189 (talk) 22:14, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

"Especially..."

Concerning similar terms to redneck, the parenthetical "especially" phrases in the lead don't exactly fit, and are not supported by the references. "Cracker" does refer especially to certain rural types in Florida and Georgia, but sometimes can also refer in a more general sense to rural types in other parts of the South -- but the references make no mention of Georgia or Florida. "Hillbilly" is not used "especially IN Appalachia". It is commonly used outside Appalachia and the Ozarks to refer to folks who come from there (though there are instances where we do use it among ourselves) -- and besides, the references say nothing about it being used "especially in Appalachia". "Poor White Trash" is indeed used by African-Americans, but not exclusively by them, and not "especially" by them. Cashmore says "[The class of poor, uneducated, coarse and dirty Whites] have always been despised by the Negroes, who have called them "poor white trash", mean whites", or "po' buckra"." He does not say it is used "especially" by them, although it appears to have originated with them. The term is used by Southern Whites as well. Charles C. Bolton, in Poor Whites of the Antebellum South, writes, "During the antebellum period, southerners differentiated between whites who were poor and "poor whites" or, even more descriptively, "poor white trash"." And Newitz & Wray in Mike Hill's Whiteness: a Critical Reader, write, "Historical dictionaries of Americanisms typically ascribe the term's origins to black slaves. If we are to believe these dictionaries, the term originated as a black-on-white labeling practice and was quickly appropriated (by 1855) by upper-class whites. Both terms [white trash and poor white trash] appear to have remained in use by blacks and whites [my emphasis] throughout the nineteenth century, and although today, white trash seems to be more widespread and to be used more frequently, the term poor white trash remains with us..." In any event, the use of "especially...etc.", is inaccurate and unnecessary. It seems sufficient to link to the article on the particular term. Eastcote (talk) 02:46, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

the geographical and racial references are accurate, and are abundantly referenced in most dictionaries and the Wiki articles crackers and hillbillies. -- of course it's not "exclusive" it is "especially". As for race the term is especially used by blacks (reference says "that they have ALWAYS BEEN DESPISED despised by the Negroes, who have called them "poor white trash," Cashmore-Jennings p36) The "always been despised" part justifies the "especially". Rjensen (talk) 04:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, your last edit is more accurate, but it's still not supported by the specific sources used. I'll see what I can dig up for Cracker and Hillbilly. As for White Trash, I still say it is inaccurate to say "especially among African-Americans", because it's used as much by Whites. "Always been despised" does not equal "especially." Both blacks and whites use the term "white trash" in pretty much equal measure. See the two sources above. The current sources in the article do not say the term is used especially by blacks. But is the "especially" language even needed in this article? It would be much simpler to just say "the term is similar to cracker, hillbilly, and white trash", with links to those pages. Readers could read about the specific usage of those terms there. Eastcote (talk) 04:47, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

well it is a minor point, but I think it's whites who use "redneck" and blacks who use "white trash." For example, there are a lot of RS that discuss how blacks use "white trash." See David R. Roediger, Take Black on white: Black writers on what it means to be white (1999) pp. 13, 123. Black authors have noted that blacks when taunted by whites as "niggers" taunted back, calling them "white trash." [Philip C. Kolin, Contemporary African American Women Playwrights (2007) p. 29] and Black parents taught their children that white racists were "white trash".[Festus E. Obiakor, Bridgie Alexis Ford, Creating Successful Learning Environments for African-American Learners With Exceptionalities (2002) p. 198] The epithet arrears in Black folklore [see Anand Prahlad, The Greenwood encyclopedia of African American folklore (2006) Volume 2 p. 966] for example when slaves (when out of earshot) would refer to harsh overseers as a "low down" man, "lower than poor white trash," "a brute really."[Claude H. Nolen, African American Southerners in Slavery, Civil War and Reconstruction (2005) p. 81]. Rjensen (talk) 04:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Minor point, sure, especially since this page isn't about "white trash", but it's still inaccurate. Certainly Blacks use the term, and there are abundant sources that say they do so. But so do whites. Growing up there were two groups looked down on: Blacks and White Trash. It's very common white usage in the South, if for no other reason than to say "we're poor, but we ain't trash." Since you insist on having the "especially" lines, and since both blacks and whites use the term, perhaps it is more accurate to differentiate it from redneck by use of socio-economic terms. A redneck needn't be low on the social scale (there are probably many successful politicians who'd qualify for the title), but it seems to be a general prerequisite for being "white trash". Eastcote (talk) 05:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

well I provided proof that "White trash" is common among blacks; Eastcote now needs some RS that says its equally common among whites, which I do not think is true. The key to WT is to have a bad character--a Snopes--while the key to Redneck is being a poor uneducated farmer who may well have high moral standards.Rjensen (talk) 05:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you povided sources that "white trash" is common among blacks. I agree, and never said otherwise. I provided sources that it is common among BOTH blacks AND whites. It is not used "especially" among blacks, and none of your "RS" say it is used "especially" among blacks. That's not exactly accurate. It apparently originated with black slaves, but came to be used by all throughout the south, and is now used nationwide. If you recall, a "basic principle of Wiki is that editors report what the RS say", not what they interpret them to say, and not what they "think is true". That's POV. If you wish to insert "especially", then it is up to you to provide sources which specifically support "especially". See WP:BURDEN, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material." However, this is not the article on "white trash", and as I suggested earlier, elaboration on tangential terms might not be appropriate in this article, especially where the tangential elaboration is controversial or not clearly supported by "RS", as is the case here. Simply a link would work. Eastcote (talk) 11:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Numerous RS comment on the importance of the WT term in the black community as a way to counter racism; no one has given a RS that says the term is often used or is especially important to the white community (where "redneck" is much more common). Rjensen (talk) 10:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

You're missing the point again. Since you wish to insert that the term is used "especially" among blacks, then the burden of proof lies with you to provide "RS" that say so. I agree with you that the term IS used among blacks, and there are multiple "RS" that say so, but I disagree that it is used "especially" by them...meaning more than by any other group in the United States. You need to provide the "RS" to prove "especially". You have not shown that any of the "RS" you mentioned support this. Although it is not up to me to "disprove" "especially"...

• Bolton, in Poor Whites of the Antebellum South, describes it as a term used by "southerners", and does not specify special use by blacks as opposed to whites.
• Newitz & Wray, in Whiteness: a Critical Reader, describe it as a term "in use by blacks and whites".
• John Hartigan, in Wray & Newitz' anthology White trash: race and class in America, states, "...white trash is a cultural figure and a historical identity, it is a means of inscribing social distance and insisting upon a contempt-laden social divide, particularly (though not exclusively) between whites."
• Constance Penly in the same anthology, "A Southern white child is required to learn that white trash folks are the lowest of the low because socially and economically they have sunk so far that they might as well be black."
• Bell Hooks, in Where We Stand: Class Matters, states, "...these terms were not the product of black vernacular slang, they were the terms white folks with class privilege invented to separate themselves from what they called poor 'white trash'."
• Julie Bettie, in Women Without Class: Girls, Race and Identity, points out the term's mainstream use in media, from the TV show Roseanne, to the San Francisco Chronicle, to Rolling Stone.

One needn't look far to see there is vast use of the term in general in this country, and not "especially by blacks". Titles in a Google Books search for "white trash" turn up everything from cookbooks to humor to novels and social analysis. So again, it is up to you to provide a source that says blacks use it significantly more than whites do. However, this is not the article on "white trash", and as I stated earlier, elaboration on tangential terms is not appropriate in this article, especially where the tangential elaboration is controversial or not clearly supported by "RS", as is the case here. Simply a link will work. Eastcote (talk) 17:23, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

See White supremacy and racism in the post-civil rights era (2001) By Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, based on systematic sample of 400 people, black and white, in Detroit. Only one white person said he used "white trash" (p 179). Rjensen (talk) 17:31, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Note that in the study Bonilla-Silva describes, it does not say that any blacks used the term "white trash" at all, but only that one white 23-year old did. Note also that Bonilla-Silva says "no black or white respondent used [nigger or honky] as legitimate terms during the DAS interviews", either. That doesn't mean the terms aren't used. Eastcote (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

The term "trash" refers to a combination of low economic class and, especially, perceived low moral character. I have heard plenty of whites refer to other whites as "white trash" or "trailer trash" (which could be race-neutral), and I have even heard blacks refer to other blacks as "n*gg*r trash", with the same underlying idea. "Redneck" used to be a lot closer to "white trash" than it is now, as thanks to Jeff Foxworthy and others, it has become a kind of "chic", and it also carries an implication that they work for a living, albeit out in the fields. It's not so easy to narrowly confine the use of pejoratives, which tend to be fluid and to evolve. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:12, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

It's interesting that many blacks object to the term "white trash", and perceive it as a back-handed racist term. Can't find the article that discusses this at present, but I will look for it. The anti-black implication of the term is the assumption that trashiness has to be pointed out in a white person, whereas all blacks are trash by virtue of their being black so it doesn't need to be pointed out. (Although I too have heard occasional use of the term "n*gg*r trash"). Eastcote (talk) 18:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm talking about blacks themselves using that term "n*gg*r trash". I expect that any group in general is a bit sensitive about what they perceive as negative impact from the low-lifes within their group - especially minorities, because they fear (with justification) that it tends to paint all of "them" the same way in the minds of other groups. Whites calling other whites "white trash" is along the same lines, though maybe a little less so because whites are still the plurality race in America. But it's all pretty much the same thing: Feeling like the lowest of the low in your group make you look bad also. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Re: "I'm talking about blacks themselves..." That's what I was refering to as well. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Eastcote (talk) 18:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Most people who use the term "redneck" are rednecks, using for themselve. --50.149.180.189 (talk) 22:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

sometimes derogatory

I changed it to say "sometimes derogatory" [1] since many rednecks refer to themselves proudly by that name, and some are famous for it, and the media uses the term without being insulting at all. And it isn't just used for farmers. I think the Webster's Dictionary definition is far superior than dictionary.com since one is a legitimate print dictionary that has been around since 1828. Dream Focus 21:24, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I think that was a good edit.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 21:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. Dictionary says "often", and it is disparaging. Just because a word is reclaimed by a group does not make it non-derogatory in mainstream use. There are other disparaging and derogatory words that are being reclaimed but they remain offensive (e.g., slut, queer, and nigger) EvergreenFir (talk) 22:06, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. How do you like "usually," per OED?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 22:11, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

That's better I guess. Kinda what to hear what others think, though I wonder how many people watch this page. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think its "usually" used as an insult. All the rednecks around where I'm at call themselves that. I have never known of anyone to be offended by the word. And Webster Dictionary [2] says:

“ 1 sometimes disparaging : a white member of the Southern rural laboring class

2 often disparaging : a person whose behavior and opinions are similar to those attributed to rednecks

”

So its all how it is used. OED doesn't load up for anyone who doesn't having a paid account so I have no idea what they say. Reading the article, I see how it was used for different groups without anything negative attached to it at all. Perhaps the lede could be worded to say it can be used as a disparaging comment, or simply be used to refer to a poor rural white person of the Southern United States. Dream Focus 03:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

• My current edit [3] I think clarifies things properly.

The term Redneck has been used to refer to different groups throughout history in different ways. Its most common modern usage is used to refer to a poor rural white person of the Southern United States seen as uneducated. It can be derogatory slang term[1][2] similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks),[3] and white trash (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality).[4][5][6]

• I think that clears things up rather well. Everyone alright with that? Dream Focus 03:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

The term has one very major meaning and a few recent spinoffs, so we need to tighten the opening line. Rjensen (talk) 04:29, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

We have no sources for the word "chiefly," which you inserted. We have one source that says that it's "often" derogatory in one sense and "sometimes" derogatory in another. This is too complex to explain in the lead. The OED actually uses the word "usually:" 3. orig. N. Amer. (usu. derogatory). Originally: a poorly educated white person working as an agricultural labourer or from a rural area in the southern United States, typically considered as holding bigoted or reactionary attitudes. Now also more generally: any unsophisticated or poorly educated person, esp. one holding bigoted or reactionary attitudes. "Chiefly" is a guess on your part. "It can be" is worse than any previous suggestion and is also not supported by sources.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:04, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Dream Focus, I agree with Rjensen that your proposal for the lead is too detailed. I understand EvergreenFir's objection to the word "sometimes." I think perhaps the prose you wrote could be put into the body of the article in some form to explain what's going on and then that would make whatever hedge we decide on in the lead be actually more compliant with WP:LEAD.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:08, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

"some reactionary Americans"

Regarding this diff: 80.61.189.47 thinks their version is more neutral because: wiki explicitly states to avoid using vague and subjective terms, neutrality is not 'weasel wording'. First of all, changing "bigoted, loutish reactionary Americans" to "some reactionary Americans" is vague to the point of incoherence. Which reactionary Americans? Just being a reactionary is certainly not enough to be called a redneck, it's necessary to be reactionary in a specific way. The previous version specified which amongst the many reactionary Americans the term tends to be applied to. It's neutral, factual, and more specific. Second, 80.61.189.47 wants "opposed to various modern ways" in place of "opposed to modern ways." Various? We didn't say which ones before, so the word "various" doesn't add anything to the meaning. It's arguably not a good phrase, since it doesn't specify in either version which modern ways these reactionaries are opposed to, but adding various doesn't fix anything and, although it doesn't especially harm anything, it sounds weirdly vague. Weird vagueness is to be avoided. Thoughts?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:14, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

The issue is how a specific word is actually used, not whether it's a nice or naughty word. the solution is to go to the source and quote it exactly (I used the 3rd edition). You can read it for yourself (the 4th ed) [http://www.amazon.com/American-Slang-Barbara-Ann-Kipfer/dp/0061179477/ at Amazon] search for "redneck" at p 404 --AND look at their other examples of actual usage. Rjensen (talk) 04:49, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Is that book considered a reliable source? Anyone can publish a book about anything after all. I think the dictionary definition is what we should go by. That book doesn't mention in what part of the country the "redneck" was used as an insult. Dream Focus 14:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

It's not just "a" reliable source, it's the reliable source when it comes to American slang. It's not being used to support any claims about regions of use.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:01, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

"poor" and "farmers"

There maybe a cited source, but it's form 1975. I never hear people use redneck for only poor farmers. Heck, I've hardly ever herd it used to describe farmers in general. I thought it was meant to be a term to designate the general populous of Southern Whites. And it most definitely is not limited to poor farmers. Halofanatic333 (talk) 14:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

the text explains: "By the 1970s, the term had turned into offensive slang and had expanded its meaning to mean bigoted, loutish and opposed to modern ways." Rjensen (talk) 15:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

uhhh and also there is also such thing as black rednecks and native american rednecks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.78.183 (talk) 03:10, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

It seems now that its used mostly to refer to rural and/or non-afluent Southerners (especially poor, rural Southerns), most often white, but not usually farms, often blue collar works. Even middle-class professionals may describe themselves as rednecks, if this is there background and cultures (often taking pride in being a redneck). Really, it more about particular regional culture, rather than an occupation. --50.149.180.189 (talk) 22:12, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

I think the historic pictures of rural whites in this article are misplaced. It isn't hard to find pictures of self-identified rednecks.24.167.52.195 (talk) 05:04, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

South African usage

The term "redneck" (rooinek in Afrikaans) is also a common pejorative, primarily among Boers, for English South Africans. Would this bear noting somewhere in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:3097:2810:B910:5BE5:87B:62C0 (talk) 15:40, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

"The Afrikaans translation, "rooinek" originated in the late 1800s and is a term of derision, referring to immigrant Englishmen whose necks were particularly prone to sunburn in the harsh South African sun." I'm not sure that this will fit in the article, but if the sentiment is right then go for it... --RudiBosbouer (talk) 05:06, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Misinformation

Whoever wrote this article obviously had no idea on the history of the term redneck. See Battle of Blair Mountain. This is when and where the term was made largely popular. The labor workers, who wore bandannas (usually red) to cover their nose and mouth from coal dust, when not working in the mines lowered the bandannas which placed them around their necks, hence the term redneck. So in summery a redneck was just a term for a coal miner. Japreja (talk) 16:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Also a link with audio from one of the participants in the Battle before he passed away origin of the term redneck Japreja (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

not true. that is an unsourced claim--term was in very wide use before 1921. better look at the Oxford English Dictionary. Rjensen (talk) 19:25, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Odd exclusion

The inclusion of Texas and exclusion of Alabama and Mississippi under "cracker" is bizarre, almost incomprehensibly so. Alabama and Mississippi are solidly in the conception of "Redneck," and historically are more aligned with "crackers" -- Texas has a heavy Western cultural influence, was less or not involved in the segregation battle (AL was front and center), and are more acceptable today. (Compare the results to asking your friends, "Do you mind if I bring my cousin from Alabama?" to "Do you mind if I bring my cousin from Texas?" for example.) Honestly the failure to mention them in the article is somewhat indicative, isn't it? CEFGD (talk) 20:24, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Derogatory?

Is this always derogatory? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40044261 It seems things are not so straightforward - some complex use of language going on. aspaa (talk) 15.12, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

As noted in other discussion, it is derogatory even if it's being "reclaimed" -- see for example "queer," which is still highly derogatory despite the gay community's use. Though queer is generally much more hateful when used negatively, derogatory use of redneck is much more acceptable. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_%2707, for example. CEFGD (talk) 20:39, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2019

Democratic party did not use the term rednecks as an actual political demographic. Boobooscholar (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

No change needed. the party itself never used categories except sex and race...it's a term used popularly, in newspapers, and in historical scholarship as Kirwan, Albert D. (1951). Revolt of the Rednecks: Mississippi Politics, 1876-1925. Rjensen (talk) 13:17, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2020

Redneck: Country Boy, Enjoys the country life and being low populated areas. Family oriented and protective, respects the privacy of others and stays inbounds of the law. Non racist, hardworking at a licensed trade. Defends the weak, respects his flag and nation. Union oriented or organized labor is preferred. Redneck: Country Bumpkin, Farm Boy, Ploy Boy, Coal Minor, Country Boy107.77.196.187 (talk)

}} 107.77.196.187 (talk) 16:20, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I don't see any request for a change in the above... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 16:29, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2021

Redneck is a term for working class Americans, historically white but the base has expanded to include all races. It is not a derogatory term, but a term of being a good person who works hard. Redneck is not associated with a political view or set of political views. Rednecks are not racist. 74.204.10.138 (talk) 14:17, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sincerely, Deauthorized. (talk) 14:25, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Change this whole thing

The current description of a redneck on this wiki page is disrespectful and doesn't deserve e to be on here. (Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2020) is a more accurate way of describing the term. 2600:387:F:4516:0:0:0:7 (talk) 21:10, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Source for sunburn reference

My father always told me the term “redneck” came from the red bandanas that organized laborers from that community/area wore. They weren’t farmers they were coal miners who literally spent their whole working lives underground, not in the sun.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25474784

Unless there’s a reliable source for the sunburn explanation, I think it needs to go. It’s not true and it’s a silly. lazy explanation 2603:7080:5D3C:BB00:B12C:90AE:9B56:1A89 (talk) 22:33, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

the term was widely used in the 19th century USA and first dates to 1830. The red bandanna bit is 20c--much too late. see footnotes 11-15 in the article. See "A Short History of Redneck: The Fashioning of a Southern White Masculine Identity" by Patrick Huber 1995, stating: "most scholars of the American language agree, originally derived from an allusion to sunburn." Rjensen (talk) 00:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Redneck culture Arose in England not the US

The article does not mention the history of the Redneck culture, which arose in the UK and was then migrated into the southern US. Historically is not a negative but a culture/live style from the Uk. 2A01:598:D007:4610:74C9:8F80:2E52:CA5F (talk) 12:30, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Completely False Entry

The term red neck came from coal miners attempting to unionize. During a famous march the miners wore red bandanas and were called red necks. Who ever wrote the current entry is ignorant to the correct history of the term. 70.114.183.48 (talk) 15:59, 2 October 2022 (UTC)