Talk:Pramac Racing

Rename/move

Shouldn't this article be renamed "Alice Team"??? Then make a redirect from Pramac d'Antin... --Amedeo Felix (talk) 13:37, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Disagree Alice Team is just their 2008 name because of sponsorship. The team is Pramac d'Antin. In the same way that the 2004-2005 Gauloises Yamaha, 2006 Camel Yamaha and 2007-2008 FIAT Yamaha are the same team, Yamaha Motor Racing etc... I believe Alice Team should redirect to Pramac d'Antin Chris Ssk _talk 16:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with your disagreeing. For one Pramac is, or rather was, also present in the team title due to being the main sponsor, just like Alice is now (or Gauloise & Camel as you point out with Yamaha). So by your logic the opage title still needs altering to say simply "d'Antin"... --Amedeo Felix (talk) 15:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Pramac is not a sponsor, its one of the team owners. d'Antin MotoGP and Pramac Racing merged in 2005 to form Pramac d'Antin then in 2007 Pramac d'Antin became part of the Pramac group. It is covered in the article along with a reference link Chris Ssk _talk 17:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

See no... I don't think they have ever been anything other than a sponsor of a team. The Pramac team was not an entity created by them. Did they build any bikes? No, they paid for a team to run a private Honda. That's sponsorship in my books. Someone put together a privateer entry and got Pramac to pick up the bills is all. That privateer team then merged with another privateer team bringing it's sponsor, Pramac, with it. Team Pramac is no more Pramac, as a factory, than say Roberts was Proton... --Amedeo Felix (talk) 12:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

First of all, we are talking about teams, not manufacturers, they are 2 different things, its not required by a team to built bikes. As for pramac just being a sponsor. Pramac Honda was ran by Parmac Racing the racing department of the Pramac group[23] and now Pramac Group is a co-owner of Pramac d'Antin[24]. I did my research before creating the article. Chris Ssk _talk 17:11, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, butt teh more I think on this the more convinced I am that the name should be changed here. Look, there is now no team registered under this name, Pramac d'Antin" - is that not the case? The case is however that this team is now officially registered under the name of "Alice Team". That is the the official registered name of this entity known as a MotoGP team...--Amedeo Felix (talk) 07:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Nop more d'Antin site either - it's now [25]...--Amedeo Felix (talk) 17:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Is there some authority here I can apeal to to make a call on the naming of this team?--Amedeo Felix (talk) 13:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I quot the following email exchange I had with the team, which I take as definitive as they should know their own name:

Dear Mr. Félix,

the official name of the team is Alice Team.

Kind regards

Sara

Sara Ticci

PR Specialist

Tel: 0039 0577 965348 Cell: 0039 328 3821446 Fax: 0039 0577 965294

E-mail: (deleted by me)@pramacdantin.com

---

Messaggio originale-----

Da: Felix, Amedeo Inviato: venerdì 7 marzo 2008 14.23 A: (deleted)@pramacdantin.com Oggetto: Sorry to bother you Priorità: Alta

Hi,

I am sorry to bother you with this matter, but would you please confirm whether your company is still Pramac d'Antin or if you are officially Alice Team in all respects?

Many thanks.

Kind regards,

Amedeo Félix

---

Amedeo Felix (talk) 14:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I love the total and utter silence to my post, having made the effort to contact the team directly...--Amedeo Felix (talk) 13:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Amedeo, I kind of agree with Chris on this, especially because Ms. Ticci gave you a non-answer. From the e-mail you reposted here, I understand you asked what was the company name, and she answered you with the team name. I know we're arguing semantics here, but there are some recent examples in motorsport, such in V8 Supercar, where Team Betta Electrical was the official team name in 2006 (because of sponsorship), but the company was still called Triple Eight Engineering, or in the ALMS, where the team Audi Sport North America is in reality Champion Racing. However, I do have a suggestion for a conclusive answer: the company name should be available in the 2008 edition of Who's Who in Moto GP. Pc13 (talk) 00:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually Pc13... If this were an article about a company called Pramac d'Antin then it should say something like, "Pramac d'Antin is a company which runs a team called Alice Team in MotoGP." As it stands it seems to be that these articles are about the teams and not the companies. It is the team identity which matters not the company name.--Amedeo Felix (talk) 00:17, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Now my argument is as strong as it can possibly be, because d'Antin has been removed from the team altogether. So how can it bear the name of a man who has just lost his job and is no longer part of the team at all???--Amedeo Felix (talk) 12:36, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I strongly abject to that idea. Pramac may be the company behind Alice Team, but they and Alice Team are not one and the same. MotoGP hasd a team named Alice Team registered to compete in teh series not a team named Pramac Racing - nor has there even been any news of teh team changing its name to Pramac Racing. The article should stay as it is. More sensibly Pramac can be mentioned in this article, and perhaps a page set up to tell that company's history if it does not exist.--Amedeo Felix (talk) 11:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)