Talk:Poznań University of Medical Sciences

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Requested move 10 July 2021

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time. BD2412 T 18:04, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Poznań University of Medical Sciences → Poznan University of Medical Sciences – The university does not use the ń character in its English name - see website. The page has repeatedly moved back and forth between the two spellings, see log and log with as far as I can see no discussion. The only moves where a reason has been given are to the spelling used by the university, i.e. the one I am proposing without the diacritic. DuncanHill (talk) 07:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Poznań is Poland's fifth-largest city and the diacritic that indicates pronunciation is an inseparable part of the city's name. Although the English-language website gives the educational institution's English-language name, the only Polish city that has an English exonym is the capital Warsaw {Warszawa}. The names of all of Poland's other localities remain the same in Polish and in English, including those names that use diacritics. The local place name form, replete with accents and diacritics, is used for English-language institution names in countries that use other languages, such as Federal University of São Paulo, Université de Montréal Faculty of Medicine, University Hospital of Düsseldorf, Albert Szent-Györgyi Medical University or José Bernardo Gutiérrez de Lara School of Medicine. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The City of Poznan spells itself Poznan on its English-language pages. As far as I can see the other institutions you mentioned are not comparable because they themselves use the diacritics on their English-language pages, when they have them. PUMS does not, it uses, consistently and repeatedly including in its logo, the spelling without the diacritic. DuncanHill (talk) 09:27, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, English-language Polish websites tend to drop diacritics within Polish place names, but that should not be taken as a reason for Wikipedia to follow the same practice. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 09:52, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: DuncanHill, why not you requesting move the page first from Poznań to Poznan because i think you should requesting the page move about the city itself. Page move of the university without moving the city name makes the university article inconsistent with the city article. I would support this page move only if the city article gets a page move. 36.77.92.225 (talk) 12:34, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The university teaches in English and has a clear English name. I am proposing we use that name. I don't think one could make a clear case to change the name of the article about the city. DuncanHill (talk) 13:35, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There are also Poznań University of Technology, Poznań University of Economics and Business and Poznań University of Science and Technology. Does the proposer think all of them should be renamed? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:47, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

PUEB uses the diacritic on its English pages, PUT uses its Polish name on its English pages, and I can't find any evidence for the last one existing. DuncanHill (talk) 17:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

re: the last one: must be Poznań University of Technology; I filed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Poznań University of Science and Technology. Lembit Staan (talk) 18:06, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. The university is entitled to name itself whatever it desires, and we should give a large amount of latitude to their choice per WP:ABOUTSELF. Re above comments, there's no expectation of consistency here - if other universities in the city use the accent, they should keep it. If there was some German university left that used "Posen", it'd use that. If the university dropped the name of the city from its title entirely, we'd honor that too. SnowFire (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Conditionally Support if the city's article name itself also moved to Poznan, as Poznan is clearly most common name among English speakers, even the city is more likely known in the website url as "Poznan" than "Poznań" as the latter is obscured for non-Polish speakers. 110.137.124.134 (talk) 07:53, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What the city is called is irrelevant to this RM. This is about the university, not the city. Odd that two IPs who both geolocate to South Sumatra should come here to express almost exactly the same opinion. DuncanHill (talk) 08:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The name of the city is Poznań. The name of the university is Poznań. I see no problem with the current title. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:37, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But you're wrong about the name of the university - or are you saying the university is lying about its name? DuncanHill (talk) 17:46, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be silly! Foreign institutions often remove diacritics on their English-language websites because they don't think English speakers can cope with them. That doesn't change its actual name, given it is located in the city of Poznań. It's merely a convenience based on a misconception (or maybe not, given some of the comments I've seen on Wikipedia) of the cognitive abilities of us native English speakers. An encyclopaedia should be able to rise above such nannying and use the actual name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:29, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So you're saying foreigners can't be believed? When a foreign university tells us what its English name is we should assume they are wrong? I have to say I find your argument incredibly patronising. They say their English name doesn't have the diacritic, and are consistent in that usage, you say "but they're foreign so we don't believe them". DuncanHill (talk) 14:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I already supported above, but I just want to extra-stress that the argument-by-consistency with the city title should be thrown out IMO - if there's sources that use this university with an accent, fine, present them, but the name of the city definitely does not have to match. IIT Bombay doesn't match Mumbai. It's a separate question. SnowFire (talk) 18:52, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.