Talk:Portuguese Ceylon

Title of article

Sri Lanka was never fully occupied by the Portuguese. For that reason today, it is widely accepted by scholars that the term Portuguese Ceylon is inapplicable. Rather the term Portuguese period in Ceylon (Sri Lanka)‎ is more applicable, because "Portuguese Ceylon" may seem to those who are unaware, as if all of Sri Lanka was occupied by the Portuguese at that time period. Therefore I would like to contest the term being used to refer to this article.--Svm1 63 (talk) 05:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello Svm1 63. In fact you had previously moved this article to "Portuguese period in Ceylon (Sri Lanka)" - you did so without discussion, which is was not good. Having said that, I am not completely deaf to your reasons. Notice however that the rationale user Domino theory used for rv your move was one of simplicity, and he makes a good point there. Regarding your substantive claim, notice that the phrasing Portuguese India is used without implying that Portugal controled all of India. The same is done for Spanish America, French Indochina, German Africa, Dutch Brazil, etc. The way they are phrased is in the sense of saying that parts of X (in this case Ceylon) were under X colonial control (in this case Portuguese). Of course a full explation, stating that there was never control over the whole of Ceylon and the exact boundaries or areas controlled is needed. But the title sould remain simple. Notice also that the title you proposed could be read as meaning the Portuguese period in the whole of Ceylon! An exact title would be impossible ("Portuguese period in parts of Ceylon plus a full description of the territores dominated an the respective time frame"). The title, I believe is good as it is. Of course we can discuss further. You should notefy user Domino theory of your position. Thank you! The Ogre (talk) 17:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I have notified all important editors in this article about a discussion going on here. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 17:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I am persuaded by the argument that Portuguese Ceylon implies, Portuguese had controlled Ceylon but Portuguese period in Ceylon or Portuguese rule in Ceylon or even Portuguese in Ceylon may be better ? Taprobanus (talk) 17:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

By the measure suggested above there is never to have been an entity such as Portuguese Ceylon, simply because the entire island was never under Portuguese control. By that same account we ought conclude that the Portuguese controlled all of Africa, except the north and the south, since there were both a Portuguese East Africa and a Portuguese West Africa. This is ofcourse ludicrous... The name is not used in the sense that all of Ceylon was under Portuguese control, just as not all of East Africa was under Portuguese control, or that all of India under British control for that matter, it merely states that some territory were under the control the respective colonial power.
Article names should be kept simple, and the articles on colonies and dependencies are no exception. Dutch Ceylon should also be restored to its original position prior to the unannounced move, before we start getting other bizzare constructions such as the Dutch period in the East Indies (Indonesia), Dutch period in Guiana (Surinam), Dutch period in Saint Martin (Sint Maarten), etc. The Dutch weren't, or aren't, fully in control of all of East India, Guiana or Saint Martin either. -- Domino theory (talk) 20:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Pardon me, why is so bizzare and ofcourse ludicrous to have a name in Wikipedia such as Dutch period in the East Indies (Indonesia) & Portuguese period in Ceylon? Per WP:NAME, it says Be precise when necessary not always. It is clear to any reader that Portuguese India means just that, Portuguese had Controlled India when they controlled not even 2% of what became India. Thanks for being civil Taprobanus (talk) 21:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Articles like Portuguese India, Portuguese Ceylon, Portuguese Timor, Dutch Ceylon, Dutch East Indies are specific enough. Portuguese Ceylon was the name for what became later Sri Lanka. There was no Sri Lanka state before that, there was the Kotte Kingdom. The king of Portugal never appointed governors or issued coins to the "Portuguese period in Ceylon", but, to the "Portuguese Ceylon". Portuguese India existed as a province of the Portuguese Empire. Its formal name under the Portuguese law was "Estado da Índia" (India State), comprising Goa, Daman and Diu in its last composition. Should we replace "Portuguese India" for "India State"?
There was no Indonesia before the Dutch. There was Java, Bali, Sumatra and other islands apart from each other, with different policies and agendas. There was no Brasil before the Portuguese, both places begin its existence exactly due to the colonial dominance. Brasil´s name before the arrival of the Portuguese was "Pindorama", but it was certainly applied to part of the actual country (the article for Brasil, due to this idea is "Colonial Brazil"). Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Brasil and many other countries owe their actual names in some way or another to their colonial past.
So, the term "Portuguese period in Ceylon" would be valid just to make happy people that do not feel confortable with colonial inputs, and would like to see the nationalist point of view of its history. Just that. But, if we use historical accuracy, this term should remain and the Dutch article would be converted again to its previous form. Emerson —Preceding unsigned comment added by Domaleixo (talk • contribs) 17:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Legacy

I removed following comments from the article, which actually should be on the talk page rather than article Ritigala Jayasena (talk) 06:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The above mentioning of Salagama cast seems to be very inaccurate. Salagama cast was formed because of the Shali-Grama Brahamins who are pure Arians came to Sri Lanka at different times. The earliest mentioning about them goes back to King Vijaya's time. Purohit Upatissa who became the King after Vijaya's death was a Saligrama-Brahamin. In 13 th Century Seven Brahamins came to Sri Lanka as a result of the King inviting them for his coronation. Cinnamon was a very expensive commodity at that time and with Kings blessings some Salagama people looked after the Cinnamon industry. Some of them Served to the King as his advisors following the Old custom from king Vijaya. Some worked as Generals. Therefore it may not be very accurate to say that Portuguese brought Salagama people to Sri Lanka. It is true that some Salagamas took Portuguese last names like Silva, Fonseka. However it happened for diplomatic requirements with the knowledge of the King and some times due to the pressure from Portuguese. During the King Senarath's time, Portuguese were defeated by Sinhalese. It was lead by a Salagama nobleman called Don Cosmo Mudali. He and many other salagamas were using Portuguese last name with the knowledge of King Senarath. King Senarath later praised the loyalty and efficiency of Salagama people, especially Don Cosmo.

Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://web.archive.org/web/20021218120822/http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/portu.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20020325102409/www.sridaladamaligawa.lk/english/tooth_relic_in2.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Portuguese Ceylon Mike Cline (talk) 01:17, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

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Portuguese period in Ceylon → Portuguese Ceylon – More accurate title for an article on the Portuguese colony in Ceylon. {Cristiano Tomás (talk) 00:37, 17 December 2011 (UTC)}

• Support -- cognate with Dutch Ceylon and British Ceylon. It is a great pity that the article currently has a mere two paragraphs before sections where it is a parent to lists of governors and other officers. I hope it can be expanded. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

My last reversal

Blackknight12 (talk) I'm correct? And the author little discusses some religious matter in those 3 or 4 pages (only maybe later), except to refer to a passage in a massacre of Christian converts. But it's better review and correct me if necessary. And if I'm wrong on this. Anyway, see if this is correct, and if you have time (or the IP editor or other Editor), see this source or other more closely, and reformulate as you wish. Added etc. If happened - i think it happened in some cases(?) and whether it happened at that level where it was placed, against Buddhism and its Temples, was largely some decades later (?), and more, after the Inquisition, instal. in India after 1560s, and around 1570s -1600s. It was obviously a shame and a crime, unfortunately common in those times. for the Portuguese involved or its religious authorities. This should have source, but serious, not private religious sites anti one another religions, with "black legend" and white legend mixed with truth. --LuzoGraal (talk) 22:28, 30 October 2016 (UTC) .

Article expansion

Fellow users, I have gone ahead and provided a basic structure that I believe to be convenient for the continued improvement of this article in the future. Most of it was (and still is) blank, which is regrettable, but need not be so, since the necessary information is available in primary sources like Fr. Queiroz's Temporal and Spiritual Conquest of Ceylon and Capt. João Ribeiro's History of Ceylon and more recent works such as The Portuguese in Ceylon 1617-1638 by C. R. De Silva, Portuguese Rule in Ceylon (1594-1612) by Tikiri Abeyasinghe, The Fatal History of Portuguese Ceylon by George Winius, Ceylon: the Portuguese Era by P. E. Pieris and several others. Wareno (talk) 18:02, 16 October 2019 (UTC)