Talk:Pine series (railcar)

A fact from Pine series (railcar) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 November 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in 1953 the Louisville and Nashville Railroad upgraded its Pan-American passenger train with Pine-series sleeping cars?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Pan-American (train).

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The pictures on this page are copyrighted on the Colorado Zephyrs page (www.cozx.com). You could have contacted me (the owner of the Colorado Zephyrs page) prior to your use. It also seems that some of the content has been lifted from my pages. At the very *least* you could have provided a link to may page as the source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davepitts (talk • contribs) 22:39, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dave, I think there's been a misunderstanding and I hope we can clarify matters. I found both pictures on Flickr: [1] and [2]. Someone named Simon Pielow claims to own the copyright on both and has made them available under a free license. Those images were transferred here based on that understanding--one in fact was moved in early 2012, long before any thought of an article. If he does not in fact own these images then I apologize for the misunderstanding and we'll have them deleted. You might also need to follow up with him and/or Flickr. I did run across your web page while researching the topic (there's not much on the web about the Pine series), but wound up writing everything from the sources listed at the bottom of the article: Wayner, Comer, and the The Historic Railpark and Train Museum's webpage. Could you please clarify your claim that material was "lifted" from your pages? Mackensen (talk) 23:08, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I took the photos as I owned the Car before selling it to IOU (Iowa) Pacific. I can't help that people download my photos (even though I put a Copyright statement on the bottom of my page) and post them on Fliker, etc. I can't go after *everybody* as I don't have the resources... I DID restore the car, I DID own it AND I TOOK the Photos and put them on MY site (www.cozx.com/copine.html). I'll go beat up on Simon; he should know that about the photos... What kind of PROOF do you need? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davepitts (talk • contribs) 19:54, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just received this e-mail from Simon:

Hello Dave,
I am sorry that the photos of Colorado Pine are on Wiki as my copyright.
This is an error, and I haven't and wouldn't benefit from them directly, financially or otherwise.
I have noted your comments and will change attribution accordingly, but can't say whether Wiki will pick this up.
I di not tell Wikipedia about them, nor claimed directly to them that they were ours.  If asked, I would have said that they were not.
I am not familiar with the process of writing Wiki articles, but believe the authors may  not be from the Wiki organisation but self-styled knowledgeable writers.
I was not aware that you had sold the car.
Our aim, generally, in highlighting private rail cars is to widen awareness of their existence and in particular, that prospective clients might wish to hire them, which would of course directly benefit the owner lf the car in question.
Again, my apologies for your very obvious anger.  
Regards
Simon Pielow

Also, I filed an "Abuse" with Flickr on the photos in question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davepitts (talk • contribs) 20:47, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that the files were posted on Flickr under a Creative Commons license which permits re-use so long as the putative author is attributed (which they were). Images are regularly moved between Flickr and Wikipedia; that's where I first saw the images. Clearly this is the result of a misunderstanding which I certainly have no desire to take advantage of. I'll begin proceedings to have them deleted from Wikipedia (Commons in particular, but the details don't matter). Pielow has other images on Flickr which will probably need to be deleted as well. I apologize for our part in this misunderstanding. Do you have any other concerns at this time? Mackensen (talk) 03:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for removing the photos. They seem to be gone from Flickr, too. Actually, if you want photos for the site I'd contact the "Towering Pine" folks at the Museum in Bowling Green. I know them, and gave them info on their work on that car, and I'll bet they'd be glad to post some photos on Wikipedia. And their paint job is to the Prototype, Mine was adapted. Also, as I said in my very first message: There are other "Pine" series sleepers on other railroads. You might want to put "L&N" or something in your title to not preclude the other railroads. For example the Santa Fe's "Pine" cars were built by Budd and were 10-6 in configuration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davepitts (talk • contribs) 17:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks Dave, I'll follow up with them. I've been aware of the Santa Fe cars but since we didn't have an article on them yet I didn't do anything about it. You're quite right though. Mackensen (talk) 18:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Colorado Pine photos are still on the Commons pages and a link is at the bottom of the page. When will the photos and the link be deleted? Or should I edit the page and remove the link? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davepitts (talk • contribs) 17:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I've removed the commons link; I'm not an administrator there so I can't do much more than make the request. Mackensen (talk) 22:35, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]