Talk:Michigan–Michigan State football rivalry

This article was nominated for deletion on 3 Nov 2004. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Michigan Mid‑importance

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Archives

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VfD

VfD summary: 12 keep + nominator changed to keep. Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Paul Bunyan Trophy. Niteowlneils 20:51, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Informal "you"

In the article, it says "If you include..." in the "Series History" section. I propose to make this more formal by altering it to remove the use of the second person.

-Pratik10

External links modified (January 2018)

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Logos

Please see WP:NFCC. The Spartans logo is a non-free logo (copyrightable), which means it can only be used on the Michigan State Spartans article. Their only free logo (too simple to be copyrighted) is the Block S logo. As for Michigan’s logo being replaced here, it’s their current and official logo. The blue logo with “Michigan” is outdated and no longer used. I will have an admin protect this page if you don’t stop your disruptive editing. Corky 17:34, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing vandalism

On March 4, an IP user registered in Lansing, Michigan, reverted the Michigan–Michigan State football rivalry to an outdated version that existed several months ago. This is part of a pattern of similar vandalism by IP users in the Lansing / East Lasing area. The IP users seek to eradicate substantial improvements that have been made to the article. This includes (i) addition of citations to previously unsourced material, (ii) addition of working urls to citations having dead urls, (iii) adding descriptions of several games from the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s (decades previously overlooked), (iv) trimming some of the game summaries that were overly wordy, (v) trying to inject a more neutral tone (some of which previously had a pro-Wolverine or pro-Spartan tilt), (vi) applying standard practice for rivalry articles in which the teams are listed in alphabetical order (the Lansing IP users seek to have Michigan State listed first in all charts, etc., despite standard practice), and (vii) general cleanup and copy editing. The IPs continue to revert all of this work and restore the poorly sourced and non-neutral version that existed several months ago. Help from other editors in monitoring this article for vandalism, and for continued improvement, is greatly appreciated. Cbl62 (talk) 04:21, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please note the repeated vandalism appears to be a concerted effort encouraged by a fan blogger/media outlet.^[1] re: vandalism "This has since been changed, but we can edit war it back. I believe in Michigan Wikipedia editors." Snaprat (talk) 18:28, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://mgoblog.com/content/and-then-it-got-worse#read-more

Tie games

The article indicates several tie games, but the table does not show this. Is the table a victim of vandalism? Bob305 (talk) 01:07, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ties restored (all had been switched to MSU victories). It would be a good idea to check other result as well as Sparty vandals may not have limited themselves to those five games. Cbl62 (talk) 02:38, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the table . Turns out there was vandalism going both ways. Cbl62 (talk) 14:51, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Melee in the tunnel

An IP has been removing this section, arguing that this incident does not belong in this article because it happened after the game was concluded. I don't see how that is relevant. This article is not solely about football games, it is about the rivalry between the teams, to which this incident seems clearly relevant. Given the news coverage and player suspensions that resulted, it also seems quite noteworthy; at least as much if not more so than the 2018 "pregame skirmish" or the 2007 "little brother" comments, which also took place outside the actual gameplay. CodeTalker (talk) 16:37, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's one of the most notable incidents in the history of the rivalry. It clearly belongs. Cbl62 (talk) 21:44, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have reinstated the content as it is extremely obviously relevant. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 23:58, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also, it would appear that these IPs (which I suspect are all the same person) have an axe to grind with the Michigan Wolverines. These edits were probably made in bad faith. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 00:08, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The four IPs who removed content on 3 Nov are all in the same IPv6 /64 range (2600:1700:5de0:d8d0::/64), so they are almost certainly the same person, or at least using the same router to access the Internet. CodeTalker (talk) 01:00, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is an echo chamber of clear bias with multiple clearly pro-University of Michigan individuals. Adding the most recent game to this every season is needless clutter. The actual game was ho-hum. Just because Michigan won doesn’t make this game notable. Nothing that happened during the game was notable enough to include in a “notable games” section. Talk about a fight belongs in a different section of this page. Similarly, the pregame skirmish is about an event well before the game and talk about Devin Bush tearing up the playing surface hours before kickoff probably belongs in a different section than “notable games”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1008:B05A:B695:812:6D51:1C74:A268 (talk) 00:21, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus is clearly against you. The content needs to be restored. Cbl62 (talk) 00:30, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

3 people is not a consensus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5DE0:D8D0:35C8:376F:BC08:F754 (talk) 01:13, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is not necessary to divorce the events immediately after the game from the game itself. The article reads much more naturally this way. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 22:44, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The argument that events before and after the game also merit discussion must imply that similar comparisons are relevant. The very recent removal of discussion noting how the University of Michigan reacted to the "egregious" tunnel incident with MSU demanding and the lack of discussion regarding a completely similar felonious action by a Michigan player is relevant. IF this article is "not solely about football games" then content regarding how the two teams have a rivalry can include how the University of Michigan didn't hold itself to the same standard as it did MSU. Did you read the two attached citations that made this exact point regarding the tunnel and gun incidents. Return the recently removed material. (no Username yet). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:E4C0:4EA0:BC93:92CB:FDBD:A3C7 (talk) 05:01, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You contend that the actions of Khary Crump and Mazi Smith represent a "completely similar felonious action". Hmmm. Let's consider your contention:

Khary Crump has been charged with a violent attack on a Michigan player, using his helmet as a potentially deadly weapon. He inflicted a concussion on his victim who was unable to participate in football games or other activities for some time after the attack. The incident occurred at Michigan Stadium immediately after the rivalry game. The Big Ten investigated, issued a $100,000 fine against the MSU program, and suspended Crump for 12 games continuing for eight games into the 2023 season.
Mazi Smith was pulled over for speeding and didn't have the paperwork for his gun. He committed no violence and is charged with simply not having the correct paperwork (he had applied for the permit but it had not yet been issued). Moreover, the incident was completely remote temporally, physically, and otherwise from the rivalry game.

A paperwork violation and a violent attack on an opposing player, at the stadium, and causing serious personal injury are not, as you put it, "completely similar felonious actions." The comparison is frankly ludicrous. Cbl62 (talk) 05:33, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://mgoblog.com/content/and-then-it-got-worse#read-more

[1]