Talk:Orania/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Carabinieri (talk · contribs) 04:44, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I'll be reviewing this and I'm sorry you had to wait so long for a review. I have not gone through the article in detail yet, but here are a few initial comments:

• In the lead, the claim "Anyone who defines themselves as an Afrikaner and identifies with Afrikaner ethnicity is welcome to live in Orania" is sourced to pages 68-69 of the Burg paper. I was unable to find the claim there.
• The way quotation marks are used is not in keeping with the Manual of Style.
• According to the "Reception" section, the town is widely considered a racist project, but this is not reflected in the ideology section. That makes that section read like a whitewash. I would suggest merging the two sections, since obviously not everyone agrees on what the town's true ideology is.--Carabinieri (talk) 06:22, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Carabinieri: Sorry for the delay. I tried to fix issues 1 and 3, and to deal with the quotations according to MOS:QUOTEMARKS.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:20, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

• Any update on this reviews progress? AIRcorn (talk) 22:26, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Carabinieri (talk · contribs) has not been editing since November. Perhaps someone else could review the article?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 16:35, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

I will take over. I have few others I need to finish off first and other issues have come up at home that might impact my time a bit. Ping or leave a talk page message if I have not started this by the by the end of the weekend. AIRcorn (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

@Aircorn: only a couple of weekends late, but just a reminder of this PotentPotables ( talk ) 20:08, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot about this. A GA of my own got taken up. I will start this as soon as I finish that one. AIRcorn (talk) 21:37, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

No problem, just making sure this one finally gets sorted out PotentPotables ( talk ) 22:55, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

New review

I was expecting just an ordinary town article, but this one is a bit interesting. So far I think it handles the controversial nature of the town well. Have started leaving comments below. Not all are required to pass GA. More to come later. AIRcorn (talk) 07:57, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• According to its founders, the purpose of Orania is to create a town where the preservation of Afrikanerdom's cultural heritage is strictly observed and Afrikaner selfwerksaamheid ("self reliance") is an actual practice, not just an idea I wonder if it would be better introducing what Orania is before going into the purpose.
• All jobs, from management to manual labour, are filled only by Afrikaners; non-Afrikaner workers are not permitted to work unless they have skills no resident has. You talk about jobs, but it is not clear whether non-Afrikaners can live there.
• How is this enforced? It is local laws or is it a privately owned land or something else?
• Maybe move the map image up so it is visible when reading about the proposed reach.
• Carel Boshoff IV Is this another Boshoff?
• I feel the external reception could be a bit better organised. It is by no means terrible, but does jump around a bit. See Wikipedia:Copyediting reception sections for more details. It is also a bit odd having short paragraphs, followed by a long one and then back to short again.
• comparing it to a Clarens or Dullstroom of the Karoo I dn't think the "a" is supposed to be there. Also why the comparison? Because of their policies or just looks/atmosphere?
• The documentary image doesn't seem to fit in that section either. Unless there is context missing?
• The Orania region has been inhabited since about 30,000 years ago when Stone Age hunter-gatherers who lived a nomadic lifestyle there. Grammar
• During the same month, the people who still lived in Grootgewaagd were evicted, Was this by the Boshoff?
• In a conciliatory gesture, then-President Nelson Mandela visited the town This paragraph consists of a few different incidents, but they are not tied together well and lack some context. I feel more could probably be mentioned on Mandelas visit. Does the shooting have any resolution or lead to anything. Pretty much every sentence here needs to be expanded into its own paragraph or tied together better. There is no flow between them.
• The 2001 Census found 519 residents.[100] By 2003 local amenities included a holiday resort on the Orange River, a home for senior citizens, two schools, a private hospital and a growing agricultural sector.[25] How is this an aftermath of the court case? Would fit in better in the section above where it talks about numbers and conditions.
• A R5 million shopping centre, the Saamstaan-winkelsentrum, opened in 2006. Same with this paragraph. I wouldn't get too caught up on chronological order. It reads better following themes. Especially since you have made this a sub section.
• The writing on the map is hard to read.
• The town's territory originally covered 300 hectares (740 acres), and was expanded through a number of land acquisitions. What is the total land area now?
• White South Africans were the main population group at the time of the 2011 census, representing 97% of the total. Given what I read above I would have expected 100%. What are the other 3%? I feel they should be mentioned
• Population estimates for Orania, 1991 to 2017 Where does this come from
• voted against changes to the DRC Abbreviations should be linked to their first usage when they are spelt out (usually in brackets).

<<<--Placeholder to Legal framework--->>>

• In 2011, town rates for residents were between R1,500 and 2,000 per month. This doesn't really mean anything to me. Is that high or low compared to other towns?
• Frans de Klerk is the chief executive officerDoes the as of 2018 apply to him as well?
• Orania has its own municipal structure in the form of the Orania Representative Council It is a little confusing as this is linked under a different name above. Also my reading was that Vluytjeskraal was the municipal representation so not sure if this is contradictory or if it could be explained better.
• The four votes recorded for the Economic Freedom Fighters party in the 2014 election elicited a number of comments from South African media. Feel this needs more context. Is it a Black party?
• Being an Afrikaner is the most important criterion for admission.[4] Although there are news sources that claim that black or coloured people are not allowed to live in Orania,[18] the town's spokesman insists that there are no rules against admitting them as residents.Is this contradictory? Saw a sentence about Black Afrikaners in Afrikaners, is this what is meant? I take it there are currently none residing there. This is brought up on the talk page as well and may require a bit more explanation here on who can actually become a resident.
• to assist in the development of own institutions and the transfer of knowledge between the communities. Grammar seems off here
• While buildings from the Water Works era can rely on pre-existing utility connections, What is the Water Works era?
• You mention the number of student attending CSO, is it possible to get the number at Volkskool for comparison? Or at least some indication of which is the larger - or that they are both similar.
• File:Die Ora Orania.jpg is sourced to the Afrikanners wikipedia, but I don't feel that is good enough to establish that it is free to use. It should be sourced to where they got it from. The rest seem alright
• No obvious copy violations
• I feel this is an article where NPOV is going to be a concern. I am not South African so hopefully deemed neutral enough not to have any strong biases. Reading it I felt it was neither whitewashed or a hit piece. It provided criticism, but also was written in a style consistent with other town articles I have seen. Due weight can always be difficult to determine, but I feel this is within the spectrum allowed for a Good Article.
• The lead is a bit weak. It should probably be expanded on. Leads should summerise the article and this one is missing a few important details. I would expand on the existing paragraphs rather than add new ones.

Okay. An interesting article. Sorry it was so delayed in being reviewed. AIRcorn (talk) 20:07, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

I will give this one more week and then fail it if I get no response. AIRcorn (talk) 00:09, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Aircorn, the nominator has just said on their talk page that they won't be doing any work on the nomination. Under the circumstances, I'd fail it now; unless you think that you'll get a last-minute response from someone in a WikiProject that you've pinged. I'm very sorry it's worked out this way; with luck someone will eventually come along and work on your points and ultimately renominated the article. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:22, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

• Failing AIRcorn (talk) 06:31, 10 April 2019 (UTC)