Talk:Oliver Ortmann

Oliver Ortmann has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: September 7, 2019. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Oliver Ortmann appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 June 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that German pool player Oliver Ortmann was the first European to win the U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Oliver Ortmann.

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Germany: Hamburg Low‑importance

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Cue sports Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pool, carom billiards and other cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Cue sports to-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Lots of high-priority articles need to be created:

List of wanted articles...

Games: A bunch of high-priority game redlinks, e.g. American four-ball billiards (redirs to Four-ball billiards but not specifically covered there)
"Legends": Edwin Kelly, Charlie Peterson (pool player) (all BCA Hall of Famers); George Franklin Slosson, Maurice Daly (billiards player), Frank Ives, George Butler Sutton [not George H. Sutton, the one with no hands]
Male pool bios: Hsia Hui-kai
Female pool bios:
Male three-cushion bios: Dion Nelin & Jozef Bel Philipoom
Female carom bios: Aygen Berk Saygıner
Aristic pool bios: Nick Nikolaidis, Mark Dimick,Sebastian Giumelli, Eric Yow
Unranked in current pool but notable: Mike Eufemia, Shannon Daulton, Jimmy Reid (pool player) [speed pool champ], var. Mosconi Cup players
Non-player figures: Mitch Laurance, George Fels
Five-pins bios: Gustavo Zito
Organizations: Joss Tour
Events: WPA World Nine-ball Championships (pre-1997), BCA Open Nine-ball Championship, World 14.1 Continuous Championship, International Challenge of Champions (pool)
Media and misc.: Iwan Simonis (leading billiard cloth maker), Joss Cues (major cue mfr.), The Baron and the Kid [Johnny Cash film], Ultimate Pool Party [TV show]
And: everyone/thing listed at WP:CUEGAMES, WP:CUEEVENTS, WP:CUEORGS, WP:CUEBIOS, & WP:CUEMISC. Also a Cue sports world records article (many can be pulled from bio articles like Geet Sethi, Guinness Book will provide others, and so will BCA and other orgs., websites and books like Shamos 1999).
Meta: Outline of cue sports (OoK; cf. [1], etc.) – presently redirects to Cue sports, but this is not an OoK page.
Internal pages: Something like: [2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf. [4][5][6]).

Cleanup : Thomas Engert, Marlon Manalo
Copyedit : Jonni Fulcher
Expand : Cue sports techniques#Carom shots (section needs to exist), Straight pool, Alfredo de Oro,Jeanette Lee (pool player)
NPOV : Andy Segal (major WP:COI and WP:V issues, too), Jose Parica (it's bad!); Efren Reyes, Thomas Engert, Dennis Orcollo, Dick Jaspers
Photo : Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports people
Split : List of World Eight-ball Champions - blackball stuff needs own article {draft split from real eight-ball one (draft).
Stubs : loads of players in Category:Cue sports stubs
Update : Arcade game (link to bagatelle, bar billiards, etc.)
Verify : Cue stick (mostly WP:OR!), Frank Taberski (has major fact conflict between BCA & NYT sourcing), Russian pyramid, add sources to Unreferenced BLPs
Wikify : Chicago (pool), Jonni Fulcher
Other :
- Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of nine-ball, timeline of Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
- Form sections: Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
- CopyVio rewrite:
- Clarify: What is the "continuous pool" listed above "14.1 continuous" at Alfredo DeOro?
- Delete or defend:
- Move/Rename (and Redirect):
- Redirect:
- Unorphan:
- Ensure: that rules discussions in game articles & the Billiard techniques article do not violate WP:NOT#IINFO.
- Help fix: WP:CUEBIOS#Pool players (women) is nearly empty!
- Help develop: the lists of WP:CUEORGS and WP:CUEEVENTS
- Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
- Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see Ding Junhui for example).
- Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g. 1965 in sports), using {{subst:Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
- Change:
- Replace:
- Some day: Seek Featured Topic status.
- Plunder: the French article; it does have some interesting tidbits, structure and images. Check out de.wikipedia, etc., as well.
- Inter-wiki: Improve simple:Billiards and foreign-language key articles.

See also: Snooker to-do list

Note: To watchlist this to-do list, click on "watch" at top right of this table. Watching the page it is transcluded on won't watch the to-do list.

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Miniapolis, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 8 June 2019.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Oliver Ortmann/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 10:45, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

No need to link "German".

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pool is piped to a redirect.

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"9-Ball" -> "9-ball".

Actually the game is nine-ball, not 9-ball, changed

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"and the 2007 and 2010 14.1 world championships, and the..." and x 3...

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

" three championships" is that three world championships?

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"With 44 German national medals, Ortmann is one of the most successful pool players of all time" a bit odd, since they're German national medals, do you mean he's one of the most successful "German" pool players of all time??

I did

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"receive the Silbernes Lorbeerblatt." qualify this is considered the highest sporting award in Germany.

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:54, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Where is "The Machine" referenced?

I can link to [7], but I don't know how I'd make this work in the prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just cited to infobox. Not sure how I'd make it work in prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:37, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the World championships in the infobox in reverse chronological order?

Fixed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What date does the number 1 ranking apply to?

The highest WPA ranking (basically the world rankings). Sadly, the WPA's back history of rankings is quite difficult to find. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Any reason why you use "14.1" in the lead (I've never heard of it) and "Straight pool" in the infobox?

It's the same game. 14.1 continuous is a type of straight pool. There are others, but aren't the version played professionally anymore. 14.1 is the fact that there are 15 balls, and when one is left, the rack is replaced and the final ball on the table is used to cannon off and break. I have changed to straight pool to make it more consistent. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

", and moved to Hamburg in 2003.[1] At age six " the move to Hamburg happened when he was 36, so this reads a little odd!

The move to Hamburg is kind of irrelevant, I agree. Removed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"he began playing in the basement of his parents' restaurant, which contained a pool table" -> "he began playing on a pool table in the basement of his parents' restaurant"

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"He was the first player from Europe to win ..." was it also unusual as it appears he didn't go professional for another four years?

Indeed. I suppose the professional status of a player of pool is kinda up for debate, as there is no official tour like in snooker. He went professional at around this time, but didn't win much for quite some time after this. I have reworded to make it sound like it wasn't expected. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"outside the continent and " worth checking but I think in this context we normally capitalise Continent.

I had no idea. Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Any independent verification that he won the Silbernes Lorbeerblatt? The source given is Ortmann's own website, and our own article on Silbernes Lorbeerblatt doesn't mention Ortmann.
- It's not a complete list there, but I can't find anything. The closest thing was a pdf (in German) of winners until 1973. but not later. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - This is a really odd one considering it's considered to be such a prominent sports award. I wonder if Gerda knows of any resources which might help? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:33, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorry. I looked, and found Wikipedia and mirror sites, and official docu without names. Strange for such a high awards to not have an aczual list of recipients. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:52, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - Gerda thanks for taking a look! The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:05, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not seeing how ref 15 cites pretty much anything preceding it in that paragraph.

I've added some sources Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jasmine Ouschan has no e.

Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"He is a three-time European player of the year" similar comment re: personal website.

Easy to source this one. Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Does ref 29 cite all Ortmann's previous appearances in Mosconi?

His AZB profile does, which I'll add. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think you could probably expand on his performances in Mosconi Cup (that's where I first heard of him)...

I'll take a look Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:24, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I did try to, but he never really won any MVP awards, and only on the winning side on two occasions. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:21, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's it on a first pass. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 12:14, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A few issues above that I'm not sure on. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Still some spaced hyphens in the ref titles, should be spaced en-dashes. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if I have fixed this or not. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:02, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 33 appears to have the publisher in the title of the ref, check the others... The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:02, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Early career" section has "defeat... in the final" four times. It's a short section so this stands out as mildly repetitive.
- I've reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Would you consider the Straight Pool Hall of Fame to be notable? It feels like it ought to be, perhaps an article could be created? I would at least consider a red link.
- Added as redlink. I doubt I'd make this article (I have over 500 bios on my list, and probably the same in tournaments before), but it is certainly notable Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to AGF on the Silbernes Lorbeerblatt title, it's unlikely that Ortmann would just make it up, it's sub-optimal to use his own website, but it's all we have, and it's apparently a highly prestigious award, so it should stay. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 07:05, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- That's what I thought - The only person who might have sources might be SMcCandlish, but I know he's on wikibreak. I know it would be an issue on an FA, but I can't just remove this award. It seems highly unlikely he is making this up. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - - @Lee Vilenski:: Just FYI, I got dead-tired of lugging around 5000 books and magazines every time I moved, and liquidated it all. My non-electronic bookshelf now fits in about three boxes. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 01:45, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think I have got it all TRM. Thanks for your review! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, looking good now, so I'm promoting. If we can find some third party RS for the Silbernes Lorbeerblatt, so much the better. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 13:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]