Talk:Old Dog, New Tricks

Article title

Note that there's a bit of a disagreement about "Old Dog New Tricks" and its title from "official" sources, so please leave the title alone until there's consensus at Fox. Many thanks.

At the moment, in all the various Fox press releases—for the actual episode and for the episodic photo pages, both referenced in the article—the title given is "Old Dog New Tricks". The EP being released includes a comma after "Dog"; however, on the "Glee the Music" website (seen here), the Ep "cover" is shown next to an episode title that omits said comma. The YouTube videos for the episode don't give the episode title in the video; in the text description, they do use the comma.

This makes two episodes in a row where they haven't been able to be consistent with the orthography. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:12, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Besides the EP, which uses a comma after "Dog", the iTunes episode also has it. Writer himself posted a photo of the episode script. Artmanha (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Artmanha, I don't think that's enough yet, so I'm reverting your recent changes, since you didn't even have the courtesy to wait for a reply here before you proceeded. Whether the comma survived the initial script cover is definitely open to debate. Furthermore, the EP is not the broadcast episode, and the orthography on the EPs has not always agreed with the episode titles. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:55, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Official script photo, posted by the episode writer, post episode's production.http://instagram.com/p/nOh9Dbtdef/ Also Amazon posted the episode with the comma. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F2CE91W/ref=atv_dp_series/192-2525190-1490102?ie=UTF8&redirect=true Artmanha (talk) 23:54, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Artmanha, the Official Fox Publicity for the episode—schedule and photos—do not use the comma. The Official music page does not use the comma in three places, while it does once: Glee the Music. The photo published by Colfer was of a gift sent to him by fans, which would have been based on the photo he posted the day production began, and that (as I've noted before) is not sufficient evidence stacked up against everything else. I'm again reverting you. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:37, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

BlueMoonset, please notice that thoses websites you cited above do not use commas on the Season Five Premiere episode's name (Love, Love, Love)—photos, Glee the Music—suggesting that it does not affect the episode's name, or that they simply ignore it for some reason. And about the picture posted by the episode's writer, you are simply guessing it was given to him by fans and that it was based on the previous picture from his Instagram account, which isn't the final script (as you noted before). Please, do not revert this again. Artmanha (talk) 22:43, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

The point here is that neither of us knows for sure, Artmanha, and there is evidence for both versions (which I find far more compelling for no comma, while you do for a comma). When that's the case, the general rule of thumb is to leave things as they are until something definitive comes in, though ongoing discussion to come to a consensus before a change is made is always welcome, desirable, and collegial. Last time, with "Love, Love, Love", it was Hulu which ended up being the final confirmation after the previous mixed messages: they used the commas, so the article switched to it. This time, for "Old Dog New Tricks", there isn't a comma to be seen in Hulu's listing (here). That's pretty good independent confirmation, at least as good as Amazon. The title could change again if something overwhelming comes in (the released DVD will certainly be an official arbiter, though it's months away), but Chris's instagram post is far from that. Did you read Chris's text in posting the picture? Yes, it's a guess on my part, but "kiddos" isn't what you say to the Glee brass or other colleagues on the show, it's what you say to fans, as is "hope you enjoy the episode". I'm assuming it's you who did the reversion six minutes after you posted the above, though under IP 201.17.223.180. Did you get logged out by accident, or by having your session expire? If not, you'll want to take a look at the sock puppetry page for guidance. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:27, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Both, Glee's official Facebook and Twitter account uses the comma and they've shown not to misspell any episode so far. Also we have Amazon and iTunes. It's better we let it with the comma, until something overwhelming comes in. Artmanha (talk) 20:18, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Artmanha, each time you come here with a new "here's something", and change the article name. This isn't how Wikipedia is supposed to work, especially once two or more editors disagree: we're meant to look over the reliable sourcing and when they disagree figure out together where the tipping point is, and try to come to a consensus. You haven't ever done that, but decided that your interpretation is right and change. Every single time. Right now, this article is on the verge of being a "Did you know" on the main page, and your unwillingness to discuss before taking action—as in "here's what we have and why it's significant and why this other bit might be questionable"—is very worrying. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:57, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

BlueMoonset, I find it far very convienient that everytime there's a discussion about an episode's name you are involved and also how you always get to choose what's gonna be the definitive and "right" name. You claim, sometimes, that one source is the most reliable, then, this source is not reliable anymore, based on what is convinient to you. I gave it to you some very reliable sources including Amazon—which you cited above as a good source. So, I say we let with the comma and if you (or someone else) finds a more reliable source I'll gladly change it back, but until then, let's leave it with the comma. And when you undo my changes you are doing nothing different than deciding that your interpretation is right and changing it. Every single time. And you don't get to decide what's the most reliable source—which you seem to choose for yourself what's that, based on what you think it's best; in some episodes you say that name is confirmed by Amazon, the other you say it is by Hulu, the other by Fox's official website. May I remind you you do not own the page nor Glee nor the truth and Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia and if you want to wait until we have something overwhelming as a source, leave it with a comma, since you seem to be so sure you're right—as usual—that is not gonna affect anything. Thank you for your comprehention. Artmanha (talk) 23:37, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

After two weeks with no further discussion, I am changing the title according to iTunes and Amazon, as I stated above. The title must stay this way until the DVD/Blu-ray comes out and prove it wrong. Thank you. Artmanha (talk) 22:23, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

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