Talk:Orh

New edits

The article is scheduled for a rewrite. So any new content needs to get consensus on this talk page before it can be added. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:17, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Replaced reliably sourced content with unreliably sourced content.

Please do not replace reliably sourced content with unreliably sourced content. See WP:RS, WP:HISTRS, [[1]]. Chariotrider555 (talk) 23:54, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@103.68.20.211, Do not revert back to the old version which was up for a rewrite. The https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Orh&oldid=995853953 current version] as written by Chariotrider555 doesn't mention anything about them being general/SC/OBCs, etc. It only says that some are artisans, some traders and some agriculturalists. If you have WP:HISTRS compliant sources for the history part or government lists from each state that mentions their designated category, bring it here for discussion. And Chariotrider555, can you please provide URLs (if available)? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 06:38, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Sure, I can get the Google Books urls. Chariotrider555 (talk) 17:15, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Chariotrider555, please do. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:43, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

You can read books like Jaati Prachiya. Majoka4321 (talk) 20:21, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes my brother you can talk here Majoka4321 (talk) 16:59, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Content Changing

Hello, my dear editors. My name is Rihan. I am changing the content of this page, i have read these things frim sevral Books. Orh/oad is not untouchables caste. They comes under General category in Uttar Pradesh district of Indian. No untouchables caste comes under general category. They also comes in Obc category in gujrat, madhya pradesh, rajasthan. They have several claim like they are true descendants of King Sagara, king Odra and king bhgiratha. They claim to be kshatriya varn in all over India. They do not have a bounded occupation. In Some places they have own land and doin farming. While in some place they done several well occupation. They mainly lives in Villages. Orh lives in main states like Haryana, UP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh etc. They have a several surnames like Birpali, Majoka, Parihar, jaiswar, mudai, Gundali etc. Majoka4321 (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

No, see WP:RS, WP:HISTRS, [2], [3]. Chariotrider555 (talk) 21:51, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

The article doesn't say that they belong to untouchables only. Agriculturalists and traders are also their occupations. Those come under general and OBCs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:46, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes Majoka4321 (talk) 16:59, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Talk here Majoka4321 (talk) 17:00, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Talk here Majoka4321 (talk) 17:00, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Chariotrider555 Would you like to weigh in? We also had a discussion of sorts here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:05, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes editor tell, what you wanna talk? Majoka4321 (talk) 17:15, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

I cannot find any sources stating that Orhs were considered to be Kshatriya. Of the sources I am finding, they are listed as untouchables, Scheduled castes, or Shudras (I have yet to add the sources that say Orhs were considered to be Shudras). Also all the kings that User:Majoka4321 mentioned are mythical and not historical. If User:Majoka4321 can find reliable modern sources to support claims, then they cannot be added (as always). Chariotrider555 (talk) 17:19, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

King bhagirath,king sagar are the Grand Father of God Ram

You can search anywhere they are not mythical@Chariotrider555 2409:4051:4E1E:6A03:1CCF:5178:B81B:7EFF (talk) 16:35, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

'Orh kshatriya chandrika' book written by laxmi narayan and bhagwati prasad singh in 1936. If orh was not kshatriya then this book title was not given as orh kshatriya. Second this book is referenced in google book 'Sexuality, Obscenity, Community: Women, Muslims, and the Hindu Public'. And search for orh kshatriya in this book Majoka4321 (talk) 17:34, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

'Library of Congress Subject Headings, Volume 4' in this book Search or Oad Rajput. In this book orh are written as 'Oad Rajput'. Majoka4321 (talk) 17:37, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

'Census of India, 1971: Series 1: India, Volume 2, Part 3, Issue 1' in this book, orh caste is written as bhagirathi Od Rajput. Bhagiratha was a king who take River Ganga on earth as per the holy books. So how that much big king is from Untouchable caste. And Also Orh are written as Od Rajput. Od Rajput are the ancesstor of King bhagiratha. They also celebrate their jayanti every year. They are kshatriya. Majoka4321 (talk) 17:42, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Please link and quote these books. I also found them in my search but titles alone do not denote status. Any caste can add Kshatriya or Rajput to their name and claim status (eg. Kurmis, Vanniyars, Kalitas, Khatris, Yadavs, Rajputs, Marathas, Reddys, Rajus, Jats, Gurjars, Ahirs, Adivasis, etc.). Please find a modern reliable source that you can quote that explicitly state the Orhs were Kshatriyas. Chariotrider555 (talk) 17:47, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

'The Indian Historical Quarterly' in this book search for Od Rajput. Here Orh are written as Oad Rajput forces. I don't think so any untouchable caste are have title of Rajput and second thing they have force. They are kshatriya. They are Rajput Thakur, Oad Rajput is itself a caste. Majoka4321 (talk) 17:49, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Please see all the resource. Majoka4321 (talk) 17:51, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Link and quote the book if you want it to be considered, it is YOUR burden. Chariotrider555 (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Oad rajput are not Rajput Thakur. Rajput Thakur is is different caste. And Oad Rajput is dofferent caste. I am not claiming that they are thakur. I am saying that they are not untouchable as they are Oad Rajput, as they bhagirathi Od Rajput. Because bhagiratha was a king. And King Odr was ancesstor of Bhagirath and then oad Rajput was having name Od. Because they are an ancesstor of king Od of Odra kingdom Majoka4321 (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Do you understand hindi,? Majoka4321 (talk) 17:59, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Please link a source to substantiate any claims. This is the English Wikipedia. Chariotrider555 (talk) 18:01, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

@Majoka4321: I asked you to provide refs in your talk page before. It is not our job to provide urls for discussion. See WP:BURDEN. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:04, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah sure this is english wikipedia. But this behaviour of yours is not good. How you can say that not you job. If not your job than why you again and again you change the content of this page and tell that orh is untouchable caste. Who give you that right, that you said this caste is untouchable or this not. This is against the indian law. And if orh was kshatriya is given in hindi books, so how can i give you English book. When i said they are kshatriya, you demand for source. I will give you hindi book source. You said thisnis emglish wikipedia. And again and again you said that is not your work that is not your work. Majoka4321 (talk) 18:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

And how can i link. When i paste and publish. Nothing will happen? Majoka4321 (talk) 18:19, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

See WP:NONENG. Chariotrider555 (talk) 18:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

@Chariotrider555: This source has been added by Majoka4321 here to support that the Orh belongs to Suryavanshi and Chandravanshi Kula. The source uses Heheya Kingdom to associate these lineages with the Orh. Point is Heheyas were a "legendary dynasty" mentioned in the epic Mahabharata which makes the source non-historical that is it fails WP:HISTRS. What do you say? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:09, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Its a poor source by any means. Written by someone I can find zero information about their credentials, and a publisher I can also find nothing about. It doesn't help that it is written in a non-English language so it is difficult to verify what the book exactly says. From what research I have done on Wikipedia about castes, I have not found a single modern caste that has a fully legitimate claim to the Kshatriya varna. Every caste turns out to have come from a lower origin (whether that be Vaishya, Shudra, or Dalit) and then claimed Kshatriya status. Additionally, if any caste really was Kshatriya, they would be able to have genealogies to historical Kshatriya clans and kingdoms, not mythical dynasties like the Suryavanshis, Chandravanshis, or in this case, the Heheyas. No WP:RS or WP:HISTRS source states that Orhs were Kshatriya, and a majority of sources instead state that they were of humble origin. Looks to me like its nothing but a common caste-boosting effort to state they were Kshatriyas. However, since the disruptive user has been blocked, this conversation is nothing but an archive so we don't need to reconvince future caste-promoters or socks. Chariotrider555 (talk) 13:45, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

@Chariotrider555: I've removed it. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:22, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Take our blood and match with the blood of descendent of King sagar,bhagirath or Lord Rama or His desendent you get the proof from our DNA 2409:4051:4E1E:6A03:1CCF:5178:B81B:7EFF (talk) 16:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

August 2022

@Studentlife123: Please do not remove longstanding sourced content like you did here and here without WP:CONSENSUS in the talk page. The content is properly sourced as can be seen in the page 114 of the accompanying reference, clearly says that Orh is one of the four sub-castes of the Chasa. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:19, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

There is no connection of of rajput with oda chasa . don't equate them. Studentlife123 (talk) 11:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Your comment sounds like an assertive statement. Wikipedia doesn't work like this. Please read WP:TALK. The article doesn't explicitly say it is about some Rajput caste either. The source above clearly mentions that Orh is one of the 4 subcastes of Chasas in Odisha. If you have a reliable source that contrevenes it, then post it here - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:30, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

But both are different. Only sounds same . Studentlife123 (talk) 14:21, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

the source given not saying any connection among them. They just sounds same. Many caste in india sounds same. Studentlife123 (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

The way he written,they are same tribe doing different works in different area. It's totally wrong. Oda chasa are from odra kingdom of odisha. That article is misleading sir. There is no source sayes they are same tribe. Only sounds same .no connection. Studentlife123 (talk) 14:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

@Studentlife123: The article covers a wide variety of occupational groups, be it artisans, carpenters, masons, stoneworkers, merchants, laborers, traders and agriculturalist. The Odia ones fall withing the agriculturalist group. So could you be more explicit on what you mean by "But both are different", with reliable sources backing up. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:08, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I am saying that odia and odisha is named after oda. There was a ancient kingdom called odra kingdom. And on the basis of that,there is a old name of odisha called odra desha or oda desha. Not only chasa ,there are oda khandayat known as odia khandayat. Oda is a term used for every odia people. They are original inhabitants of odisha. There is difference among oda and oad. The oad mentioned in the article sounds same but no similarilies in history,culture and custume. https://historyofodisha.in/odra/ Studentlife123 (talk) 17:03, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

https://www.britannica.com/place/Odisha/History Studentlife123 (talk) 17:10, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

The accompanying reference specifically mentions the terms Orh (the article name) and makes a connection with Oda, a subcaste of the Chasa, the links are established, so it stays in the article. The point that Oda might have given rise to the name Odisha is outside of the scope of this article, so is the Oda Khandayat you mentioned, since the reference article talks about the Orh/Oda Chasas from Odisha only. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:58, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

But sir how any editor can make connection in his own thoughts. No historical source mentioned any connection among them.it is wrong. It is misleading.pls change it. These are sensitive topics. Studentlife123 (talk) 03:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

This article by akio tanabe of Japan. You will find oda paika in paika rebellion,oda khandayat and oda chasa,also mentioned oda is a synonyms of odia . Pls read .page 10 .last paragraph.

Studentlife123 (talk) 04:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-asian-studies/article/genealogies-of-the-paika-rebellion-heterogeneities-and-linkages/4F1D10668F4ED9EE67FA01845047B201/share/ac52e489f0fa78d01a79aae993316ba1a10bf295 Studentlife123 (talk) 04:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Nobody is making "connection in his own thoughts". It is written per the source available. The page 114 of the source clearly says -

The Chasas form the main agriculturalist class in the area [Odisha]. Most of them possess land and some work as agricultural labourers. They are divided into four caste groups, viz, the Orh, Benatiya, Chukulita and Sukuliya..... The Orh and Oda chasas, it is alleged, were the first of...

As you can see from the reference excerpt, the Orh and Oda are termed as synonyms and are one of the subcastes of the Chasas of Odisha. Everything is explicit, so I don't see a reason to remove it. The above source of Akio Tanabe you provided doesn't say that the Orh/Oad Chasasa are unrelated to the Orh/Oad/Oad Rajputs of other areas. Pinging @Chariotrider555: for inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

But no one has says they are related. Oda are original tribes of odisha. Every odisha caste form from oda tribe. Studentlife123 (talk) 03:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Oda word comes from ancient odra kingdom of odisha. This is way oda is used as a prefix of many caste. Like oda chasa,oda paika,oda khandayat,oda kayasta (karana). They are having very high status in odisha.you will not believe,some times higher than brahmins.You can see oda paika and oda khandayat term in akio tanabe articles.odia,odissi,odisha all come from that . It might happen in ancient time some odia migrated from odisha to different region of india living doing different work. The article should written in proper way. Studentlife123 (talk) 04:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

As no source has given any connection among odia and oad rajput, the connection is based on assumption. There are also oad rajput muslims. So editor should not come to any conclusion. Same name can be happen to different tribes. Studentlife123 (talk) 04:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

@Uanfala: Would like you inputs regarding the removal here. We were having a to and fro discussion, when I left Wikipedia abruptly and the user removed it again after some time. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:47, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Od rajput

Od rajputs are real clean suryavamshi kshatriyas 203.109.108.44 (talk) 05:10, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

From which category the ohd do belongs

T 157.33.13.255 (talk) 17:16, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Odd Caste information

Hello, my dear editors. My name is Vijay . I am changing the content of this page, i have read these things frim sevral Books. Orh/oad is not untouchables caste. They comes under General category in Uttar Pradesh district of Indian. No untouchables caste comes under general category. They also comes in Obc category in gujrat, madhya pradesh, rajasthan. They have several claim like they are true descendants of King Sagara, king Odra and king bhgiratha. They claim to be kshatriya varn in all over India. They do not have a bounded occupation. In Some places they have own land and doin farming. While in some place they done several well occupation. They mainly lives in Villages. Orh lives in main states like Haryana, UP, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh etc. They have a several surnames like Birpali, Majoka, Parihar, jaiswar, gadai mudai, Gundali etc. 2409:4051:2EB6:5FF6:29FA:8C9C:D52D:D08C (talk) 16:58, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 March 2024

Od or Odra is a Kshatriya Hindu caste. They are considered to be the descendants of Chakraborty Emperor Maharaj Sagar. This Kshatriya caste is originally from Orissa and King Maharaj Od of this caste ruled North-East India (ie Aryavarta) for hundreds of years. After some time, he had a war with Firoz Shah Tughlaq and due to the betrayal of some of his own people, he was defeated in this war. Odd Rajputs had to relocate from there and a lot of their history was burnt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.187.213.37 (talk) 04:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jamedeus (talk) 04:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2024

Change "They are spread across 40 villages in Uttarakhand and Uttar Pradesh." to "They are spread across 40 villages in Uttarakhand and Uttar Pradesh " 182.69.181.244 (talk) 17:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done. X to Y request is same. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)