Talk:County of Northern Lights

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Name should be corrected

The official name of the county is "County of Northern Lights". Surely, the article should be titled accordingly. DOwenWilliams (talk) 14:53, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The naming convention for Alberta’s municipal district articles is based on the common name used by Statistics Canada (StatCan).

For those municipal districts with the official naming format of “County of XYZ”, the StatCan common name conversion is “XYZ County”, hence this article being titled “Northern Lights County, Alberta”.

For example, the article for the “County of Lethbridge” (official name) has the StatCan common name “Lethbridge County”, and therefore the WP article title of “Lethbridge County, Alberta”. The same conversion is applied for the “County of Vermilion River” and the just recently renamed “County of Newell”.

Where there is an assigned number in the municipal district’s official name, such as “County of Grande Prairie No. 1”, the WP article title is “Grande Prairie County No. 1, Alberta”.

Notwithstanding, I have created County of Northern Lights, Alberta as a redirect to Northern Lights County, Alberta so that those searching for the municipal district by the official name will arrive at the article. It is noted that the prose of the article recognizes the official name throughout. Hwy43 (talk) 20:42, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I brought this matter to the attention of Teresa Tupper, who works at the County office and edits its newsletter. She sent me the following brief reply:

David I’ve discussed the Wikipedia situation with Management and I have been told that when the new stat information is released from the 2011 Canada census, Wikipedia will have the legal data to correctly change the name. Unfortunately, this is all we can do for now. Thank you, Teresa

DOwenWilliams (talk) 20:13, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did you not read Hwy43's reply? This page will not be renamed, as long as the municipality is named "County of Northern Lights" or "Northern Lights County". It is an established naming convention. 117Avenue (talk) 01:54, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I read it. But if I understand Teresa's reply correctly, it appears either that Hwy43 is mistaken, or that the convention is about to be changed. Certainly, I know that the people who live and work in the county call it the "County of Northern Lights". (I own some land there, and visit it from time to time.) The "naming convention" that is conventionally used in real life is not what Hwy43 describes. In fact, it is disputable whether a federal agency such as StatsCan has any authority over the naming of localities within a province. Anyway, when the results of the recent census are released, the situation should become clear. DOwenWilliams (talk) 15:10, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no dispute that people call it the "County of Northern Lights", which is why the article's opening paragraph, its infobox, and the balance of the content within the article reflects that. However StatCan truncates or formats a municipality's official name for its statistical reporting purposes does not constitute a renaming of the municipality.
StatCan is already aware of the name change to "County of Northern Lights". In fact, it recently changed the census subdivision name from "Northern Lights No. 22" to "Northern Lights County" in accordance with their convention. Therefore, it appears the convention hasn't changed, at least as of January 1, 2011. We'll know for sure in February when the 2011 results are released. I anticipate there won't be a change in convention. Hwy43 (talk) 20:09, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For its own internal purposes, StatsCan can give any name it likes to anything. But whether the names it chooses, and the conventions it uses in choosing them, have any effect outside the agency is another matter. With a few exceptions, such as national parks, military installations and international airports, places in Alberta have names that are authorized not by the federal government or any of its agencies, but by the Government of Alberta. And the Government of Alberta approves of the name "County of Northern Lights". What StatsCan calls it, even in census publications, is really beside the point. However, it will certainly be interesting to see what they say in the published results of this year's census. DOwenWilliams (talk) 03:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All valid points. At some point, well before my time here, it was decided for whatever reason to use the StatCan convention in naming the articles for Alberta's municipal districts and other rural municipalities. I'm just explaining why this article is currently named as it is – to comply with the previously established convention. Sounds like we've agreed to revisit this after the 2011 census results are published. Hwy43 (talk) 04:19, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See: http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/orders/orders_in_council/2010/210/2010_024.html DOwenWilliams (talk) 04:09, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen that. In fact, I originally added that link as a reference to the article with this edit on February 3, 2010. Hwy43 (talk) 04:19, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So you did. Since it plainly says that the only name for the county that is authorized by the Government of Alberta, which has jurisdiction over such place-names, is "County of Northern Lights", then this is the one and only official name of the county, regardless of whatever shortened form StatsCan uses. Calling it by another name in Wikipedia is confusing to users. If some convention was adopted long ago that Wikipedia would use StatsCan names, then this convention should be changed. DOwenWilliams (talk) 14:55, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How about you think about it this way: the City of Grande Prairie, Town of Manning, and Municipality of Jasper are all official names of municipalities, as recognized by the Government of Alberta, but it would be ridiculous to name the articles that way. 117Avenue (talk) 02:02, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why so? If redirects are arranged so anyone who just types "Grande Prairie" gets sent to the "City of Grande Prairie" page, having the full and correct name on the article would be perfectly reasonable. Besides, apart from the little word "of", "County of Northern Lights" is just as concise and convenient a title as "Northern Lights County". Nobody would suggest titling the article just "Northern Lights". That would lead to a whole lot of confusion! DOwenWilliams (talk) 13:57, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that's what we do for the two MDs that don't brand themselves county, or have an MD number. 117Avenue (talk) 01:34, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]