Jump to content

Talk:Coat of arms of France

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Discrepancy

[edit]

There is a discrepancy between the French and English versions of this page- the coat of arms for the second and first empires seem to have been switched in the table- specifically the all-golden one. Is this Napoleon I's coat, or Napoleon III's?

TVTMaster (talk) 14:53, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

[edit]

This coat of arms cannot be considered as an official symbol of french Republic!...

(I am a frenchman, teatcher of History near Paris...)

>>> I AM A FRENCHMAN TOO, TEATCHER TOO... I TOTALLY AGREE... THIS PAGE IS A SHAME !!!... THIS UNOFFICIAL "SYMBOL" CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AS THE SYMBOL OF FRANCE !!!... THE ONLY OFFICIAL SYMBOL OF FRANCE IS HIS FLAG... (CONSTITUTION DE 1958) COULD BE STRANGE FOR OUR FRIENDS IN UK... BUT FRANCE CANNOT HAVE COAT OF ARMS AS SYMBOL, BECAUSE WE ARE A REPUBLIC !!!... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.2.101.42 (talk) 02:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Drôle de conception de la République ! Je te signale que Cuba est une république, de doctrine socialiste, qui plus est, et qu'elle a conservé son symbole purement héraldique. D'autres symboles plus ou moins armoriés constituent l'identité de l'immense majorité des États du monde, conjointement avec le drapeau national. Et ceci aussi bien pour les républiques que pour les monarchies. Ne serais-tu pas légèrement incompétent dans tes fonctions de professeur d'histoire ? J'espère que tu ne te permets pas d'incorporer des insanités républicanistes intégristes à tes élèves ou étudiants. Pour finir, je te signale que c'est Jacques Chirac qui a fait réintroduire le faisceau de licteur dans la communication de la présidence de la République, toujours utilisé aujourd'hui par Nicolas Sarkozy, et que son caractère non officiel peut être comparé au blason des États-Unis qui ne répond à aucune disposition de la Constitution américaine.--Cyril-83 (talk) 14:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm French too. My conception of the Republic is that for such things as an official national emblem, there should be a vote, at least of the National Assembly/Senate, but maybe even a referendum. No such thing happened, so the emblem discussed by this wikipedia article is rightly so called unofficial, because it is. If the president can change it on a whim, it can't be seriously considered as representing the country or the Republic (the president himself being called president of the French Republic and not of France, by the way). Aesma (talk) 16:43, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@ user, having a 'national coat of arms' is not something that is unique to monarchies, plenty of republics past and present have had and do have them.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 19:20, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

France vs French Republic

[edit]

This article has been renamed from "Coat od arms of the French Republic" to "coat of arms of France".

This is fine by me, but it is important to understand that the two do not mean the same thing. With the present denomination, the proper "coat of arms of France" would be three golden Fleurs de lys on a blue field with the Order of the Holy Ghost, etc. , plus the history of the evolution of the coat of arms.

The "coat of arms of the French Republic" is not a "proper" coat of arms, and it does not replace the coat of arms of the kingdom of France. I think that the matter should be addressed, and frankly, I think that have two separate articles could be an option. Rama 08:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Only it does replace the Arms of the Kingdom of France: the c1399-1792 and 1814/1815-1830 Arms of the French Kingdom were declared to be simply personal/family arms since 1830, and had not been Arms of Dominion since 1830. Moreover; they had been replaced 1830-1831 by the Arms of the House of Orleans, 1831-1848 by the Arms of the July Monarchy (or, more accurately, King Louis-Philippe), 1804-1814/1815 and 1852-1870 by the Arms of the French Empire (or, more accurately, Napoleon I and Napoleon III), and there have been periods (1792-1804, 1848-1852, and 1870-1898) when the French Republic was not armigerous/did not use a Coat of Arms, notwithstanding the fact that between 1790 and 1804, heraldry was abolished and declared illegal in France.

JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Coat of arms of the Ancien Régime?

[edit]

Is the pre-1789 coat of arms anywhere to be found on wikipedia? It would be nice to add its image to this page, to contrast it with the current emblem.

rooster?

[edit]

Wasn't there also one with a rooster? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 17:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 11:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Heraldic rules

[edit]

How does this emblem not respect heraldic rules (as the article claims)? Funnyhat (talk) 04:28, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Because, strictly speaking,it isn't a coat-of-arms at all; because there is no shield.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 13:17, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yet the first line of its description states: "The emblem consists of: A wide shield". I've tagged it as unsourced for now. Laurent (talk) 13:25, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

well, there is a case that could be made for it satisfying some of the rules of heraldry, but this is classic pseudo-heraldry. a real heraldic shield wouldn't have anything in front of it for starters, and it also has no charge.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 19:17, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:Emblem of France consulate.jpg Nominated for Deletion

[edit]
An image used in this article, File:Emblem of France consulate.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests June 2011
What should I do?
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 00:25, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

France Ancient, France Ancien, France Ancienne

[edit]

There is a difference in spelling (France ancien vs France ancienne) used on this page and on similar pages. E.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur-de-lis More of a problem for the other pages, since I believe it is France ancien even if you would expect the feminine for France, it is the masculine (for écu, probably, or perhaps blazon?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.68.171 (talk) 03:41, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

rooster? (2)

[edit]

Sometimes one sees a depiction of a rooster, but that is not shown.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Because any use of a rooster (or cockerel; for Brits) was unofficial.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 11:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

France Modern/Moderne

[edit]

The article alternates, for no good reason that I can see, between the spellings "France Modern" (which seems unlikely, since ordinary French words - as opposed to a few proper names - don't end in -rn) and "France Moderne" (which is correct French). I don't know for certain which is right - "France Modern" may be acceptable in heraldic English, alongside "France Ancient" - but the spelling should surely be consistent throughout the article. The same inconsistency occurs in the article on "Fleur-de-lis".213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:15, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

According to this Wikipedia article it may seem modern/ancient is the correct lingo. Iselilja (talk) 07:00, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:51, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:22, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

About the Coat of Arms

[edit]

This article presents the wrong coat of arms. It misleads people. A few seconds search shows what's the real - or just reading the page in French is enough. 11 March 2021

"Greater version"

[edit]

There is no citation for the alleged "greater version" of the coat of arms featuring angels, flags, and a mantle being official in any capacity. The external image is a piece of art by Gustave Louis Jaulmes, and there is no other source of this design being used. Only the "lesser" version is used by the government of France and can be considered the real emblem. I request that the "greater version" be removed from the page because it is misleading. Di (they-them) (talk) 00:12, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for the greater versions

[edit]

@Di (they-them):, I have added sources to the two files (France & Navarre and France only) and also below. Let's appreciate the Bibliothèque nationale de France for digitising these books for all of us. Every book listed below were scanned after I uploaded the two images in 2009. Sorry for taking so long. --Sodacan (talk) 07:45, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

France and Navarre
Image: Créations des chevaliers de l'Ordre du St Esprit faits par Louis le Grand. (1689).
Image: Recueil de mémoires et documents concernant divers Ordres français ou étrangers. (1700).
Image: Encyclopédie, ou Dictionnaire raisonné des sciences, des arts et des métiers, Volume 2. (1763).
France only
Image: L'Etat de la France, (Page 28), 1789.

Requested move 19 June 2023

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

National emblem of France → Coat of arms of France – This is the actual subject of the article, i.e. the heraldic device and previous French coats of arms. It mirrors the title of other countries' coats of arms. There is no reason that this will be confused with Diplomatic emblem of France Sigsjak (talk) 11:24, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak Support: It seems straightforward, but it would be helpful to get some further clarification. My guess is that the current title stems from the opening line's statement that suggests that France has no official coat of arms. However, that statement itself only pertains to the French Constitution. Later on in the article, we see written: "Among about twenty proposals which were approved by the government, heraldic painter-engraver Maurice de Meyère's composition was formally adopted as the new coat of arms of France." So it seems France does have an official coat of arms. Can anyone more knowledgeable shed light on this? I'd probably still support the move, official or unofficial, as the article also covers the historical coats of arms, but would prefer this point be clarified. Walrasiad (talk) 21:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense. I have moved from weak to full support. I would also like that term "unofficial" struck out from the text, if it was indeed officialized later. It is just misleading. Walrasiad (talk) 22:13, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Coat_of_arms_of_France&oldid=1213886768"