Talk:National Democracy (Philippines)

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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Filipino communism. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 11#Filipino communism until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Pandakekok9 (talk) 03:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moved pages

National democracy is not an alliance/organization. It is a political movement and an ideological variant of New Democracy in the Philippines. Help me improve the article. ~Pog ing Juan 15:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, national democracy is an ideology. But the National Democracy Movement is an organization. There should be separate for them. Charles Essie (talk) 22:13, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Essie - The organization "National Democracy Movement" (KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya) is a lesser known "national democratic organization", compared to Anakbayan, League of Filipino Students, etc. This article obviously discusses the overall movement and the ideological background for "national democracy", not an organization, and therefore, the move is justified. We can just make another article for the organization, "KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" (National Democracy Movement). ~Pog ing Juan 08:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Perhaps a split discussion would've been better. Charles Essie (talk) 09:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 February 2021

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved to National Democracy (Philippines). After much-extended time for discussion, there is a consensus for this limited move. Subdivision of the article or other changes are a topic for a different discussion. BD2412 T 23:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

National democracy (Philippines) → National Democracy Movement (Philippines) – This article was moved and it's subject matter changed with discussion. I agree that there should be an article about National Democracy, but the article about the National Democracy Movement should be kept the way it was. Charles Essie (talk) 22:18, 28 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. BD2412 T 05:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – it would have made more sense to simply revert the undiscussed move and topic change and discuss with editor to see what's going on. Dicklyon (talk) 00:02, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly oppose - As I am personally familiar and involved with the movement, I know that this should not be kept the way it was. It makes us assume that it is a mere alliance, when in fact it is not. Correct, there is an organization called "National Democracy Movement" (KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya), but it is a lesser known "national democratic organization", compared to Anakbayan, League of Filipino Students, etc. This existing article obviously discusses the overall movement and the ideological background for "national democracy", not about an organization or alliance of organization, and therefore, the move is justified. We can just make another article for the organization, "KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" (National Democracy Movement), which is a farmers' organization. ~Pog ing Juan 08:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Essie - I've actually discussed the rationale of the move and that could be seen in the page history. It goes like this: "There is an actual "Kilusan para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" organization. But it is not the subject of this article. This article's subject is not a mere alliance of organizations. It is an ideological movement, an application of Maoist principles in the Philippines." I am planning to further improve the article and add several citations. ~Pog ing Juan 09:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The nominator is wrong to assume that the original subject matter of the article is that it is an organization, as it is really not. It is not. For the existing context of the article, it is not even "National Democracy Movement" capitalized, it is "national democratic movement", a movement for "national democracy". Then the background of the ideology was discussed in "History and background". ~Pog ing Juan 09:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you're saying and I agree. It was a mistake to start this discussion. I apologize for wasting your time. Charles Essie (talk) 09:25, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move to National Democracy (Philippines). At the very least, this ideology is very different from the standard definition of democracy, or Philippine national democracy for that matter, for which other political parties or organizations outside that movement ascribe to, at least nominally, like the Partido Demokratiko Pilipino, Laban ng Demokratikong Pilipino, United Nationalist Democratic Organization, Lakas–Christian Muslim Democrats, Demócrata Party, etc.--RioHondo (talk) 06:29, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Move to National Democracy (Philippines) (with capital D). Original proponent has withdrawn request to move to National Democracy Movement (Philippines), but RioHondo is correct that the D should be capitalized; I add that as far as I know there is wide journalistic consensus to do so. - Chieharumachi (talk) 07:00, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Both "national democracy" and "National Democracy" are correct. But I guess a move to National Democracy (Philippines) wouldn't hurt. pandakekok9 (talk) 08:50, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support National Democracy (Philippines) and split into National Democracy Movement. Charles Essie (talk) 06:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.