Talk:Namus

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Ethics

Gender studies

This article is part of WikiProject Gender studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Wikipedia. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.Gender studiesWikipedia:WikiProject Gender studiesTemplate:WikiProject Gender studiesGender studies articles

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : see Unassessed Gender studies articles and Unknown-importance Gender studies articles
Cleanup : edit to see
Collaborate : see /Collaboration
Copyedit : edit to see
Deletion sorting : see /Sexuality and gender
Expand : edit to see
Infobox : see Gender studies articles needing infoboxes
Merge : edit to see
Notability : edit to see
NPOV : edit to see
Orphans : Brannon Masculinity Scale · Holy Virility · Media and gender · Michael Kaufman (author) · Women's education in Saudi Arabia
Photo : see Wikipedia requested photographs of gender studies
Split : History of feminism
Stubs : see Gender studies stubs
Translate : see /translation
Update : edit to see
Verify : Riot grrrl
Needs attention : see Gender studies articles needing attention

Law

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Arab world Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Western Asia

	Asia portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Western Asia, which collaborates on articles related to Western Asia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Western AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Western AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Western AsiaWestern Asia articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Sociology

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Namus appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 January 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that women in some societies may be subject to honor killing for violation of namus?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/January.

Wikipedia

Additional information

The article may need more footnotes. Here is a link to some references that you may want to incorporate and footnote into the article as evidence that Namus is known in the West per DYK comment. Also check out IMDB, Google Books, and other Google search categories -- Jreferee 17:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

n-m-s

Some also conjecture that the Greek term Nomos as applied to Torah ("Law of Moses") is also of the same derivation from Arabic "n-m-s" ("entrusted secret").

The author of this sentence should be aware that nms is an old PIE root. It has descendants in many many indo europeans languages, not just arabic and greek. It all means law, or divine will, or that which is seen fit in the eyes of gods...--Ioshus^(talk) 03:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't namus just a borrowing from Greek nomos? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.42.229.64 (talk) 12:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

el-Namus el-ekber

This seems to be taken from the Turkish article (since, there's no explicit source for it). I was wondering if we should make it "al-namus al-akbar" since that's a more traditional transliteration into English for those words.

In fact, a quick google search shows that Muir used it in his Life of Mohammed. gren グレン 11:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC) " Al namus al akbar;- namus being the Arabic form for Nomos, "the Law."" SmithBlue 05:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

honor killing

is there another term for honor-killing? i'm not a fan of that term. --RebSkii 16:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I've ever heard. It's well-established, anyway. --Kizor 12:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't this whole article be merged into Honor Killing? Most of the material is redundant, and the information particular to "Namus" would fit nicely under a single header in that article. I realize that namus is not synonymous with honor killing, but considering the objection below that the use of the word is not very consistent with the description in this article this entire article may be uncalled for. (post by 208.48.197.99 on 22:01, 27 January 2007)

What I'd like to see: The cultural homes of the word "namus" needs to be made distinct, and the correct word for Arabic and other involved cultures needs to be added. And the overlap with Honour killings needs to be removed. Non-overlapping areas remain - specifics about namus, the example of how namus works in a society and the non-lethal remedies for namus all appear valuable. SmithBlue 13:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from comments subpage

I am an Arab with reasonable knowledge of the Arabic language and history and contemporary social issues. I am not aware that the word Namus has the relevant connotations that this article implies in Arabic, i.e., virtue, female chastity, etc.

I have no knowledge of Turkish connotations of this word, but I strongly dispute its relevance, in the context it is adddressed, to Arabic language or social conditions.

Furhter, the word Namus is mostly used to refer to mosquitoes in Arabic these days.

Thanks

Ibrahim —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ibabelli (talk • contribs).

I think at least a reference should be made to the kind of "honour" concept that was flowering in the whole South Europe some 150 years ago and that still is going strong in Corsica for example. Remember that "crime passionel" - i.e. killing of one's wife if she had a lover, or killing of the lover - was still more or less tolerated by French law just a hundred years ago. I don't think it is much different from the current West Asian practice, or at least just a difference in scope.

As far as I can judge by the results of my own search for "namus", the Arabs don't even seem to know that there is such an "ethical concept" in their culture. Every time I came across this word it was used in the meaning of either "God's law" or "natural, physical law". In my Arab-Russian dictionary these meanings are also given as primary while "honour" is given as the third or fourth meaning. It seems like anthropologists who claim to be experts on "the trouble with Islam" use this word to make their writings look more "scientific".

Someone more learned person than I should investigate into the namus concept and its relation to the necessities of a clan-based society to enforce law without any external officials and to keep the property of the clan intact. I feel it's a kind of exotizing to leave it as it is.

Jan Wiklund —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.241.147.98 (talk • contribs).

quote 4

this quote from the quraan is paraphrased and not correct and i dont think namus is inherent ot islam as a concept.

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.[4]

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to cross the plagiarism line

Quite a bit of verbatim from this site: http://www.wluml.org/node/5802 Noloop (talk) 02:24, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article has nothing to do with the Arabic language.

This article is about either a Greek word(Nomos), or some old Ottoman Turkish word. Maybe even something else entirely, but it is not the same as the Arabic "ناموس".

The Arabic word ناموس has many definitions. None of those definitions mean "virtue", "law", "custom", "honor", or any of the other words attributed to it in this mess of an article.

http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%88%D8%B3 (in Arabic)

That link uses 5 different and well known Arabic dictionaries and lexicons.--Ultracombo (talk) 10:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"It is claimed that religious alignment with Namus does not exist in any of the holy scriptures of these religions [according to whom?]"

Lapidation (Deuteronomy 22:13-24), and forced abortion of women suspected of bearing somone else's child using an abortifacient (Numbers 5:19-22), exist in the Torah. Some scholars also consider likely that later on in the greek gospels, the story of the divine conception of Jesus was an attempt to avoid the severe punishment which would be expected for a woman who was pregnant without being married. These scriptures are considered sacred for various abrahamic and/or christian faiths, so I do not understand the claim. Or is this sentence an attempt to say that it is common for those faiths to deny that their sacred scriptures contain these? Or that they know about this and acknowledge it, but that it does not affect their current doctrine? The sentence needs precision. 76.10.128.192 (talk) 04:23, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the ambigious sentence, as there seemed to be no improvement or clarification in the last 3 months. 76.10.128.192 (talk) 21:24, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Namus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:21, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs to be rewritten

This article is extremely poorly written and sourced. Ignoring the blatant bias in the article, the weasel words ("Some Jordanian groups say..."), the poor explanation of where Namus is actually a part of culture (or the lack of any real explanation to be exact), and the linguistically incorrect statements (saying it is widely used to mean virtue even though we've had people object to that on the talk page, that part of the article has no source, and the Arabic Wikipedia page for is ناموس literally about gnats).

Ignoring all that, there exists a blatant problem with the way this article is sourced. Half the links are dead. One of the links leads to a sign studio (http://www.kwahk.org/articles.asp?id=30). It also uses single cases to make sweeping generalisations. It is clearly imperative that this article be rewritten because in its current state it is extremely poorly written. モハメッド一二三 (talk) 19:57, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]