Talk:NRC tailless glider

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Name of this aircraft and article

Most of the few reputable sources on this aircraft do not call it the NRC Pterodactyl VIII, for example Flight calls it the "NRC glider" or "NRL glider"[1] and NACA the "NRL tailless glider"[2]. meanwhile the designation "Pterodactyl VIII" is also said to apply to a Short Bros. project for a much larger aircraft, see Westland-Hill_Pterodactyl#Aircraft and here. The name we give this article seems to have been brewed up a little over-enthusiastically by the Canadian Wings website, here. So, should this article be moved to say NRL tailless glider? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:18, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have only ever seen it referred to as the NRC glider, in multiple publications, and any link with the Westland Hill series is purely the imagination of the canadian wings site as far as I can tell. National Research Council glider is probably most correct. (NRL is probably a typo as the organization is and was the NRC).NiD.29 (talk) 16:37, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it was officially named "Glider" so probably lowercase is more correct, and NRC is usually referred to by acronym rather than spelled out (their signs say NRC/CNRC, the latter the French acronym, which likely wasn't used in the 1940s, so just NRC.)NiD.29 (talk) 06:25, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, Flight explains that "the National Research Council of Canada undertook the design and construction of a tailless glider at the National Research Laboratories," and, according to the paper of my first NACA link above, "[The NRL] tailless glider is based on a design of the National Research Council of Canada (NRCC)."

I have done a bit more digging:

From one of the NRC's own reports: "Flight tests of the N.R.L. tailless glider. Part II"[3].
The National Research Council Canada website has many photots whose captions call it "The Tailless Glider" (Title case is because they are captions).[4]
An issue of Aircraft Engineering and Aerospace Technology contains an article titled, "A Tailless Research Aircraft: An Account of the Structural Design, Manufacture and Flight Trials of the Tailless Glider of the National Research Council of Canada".[5]
Middleton, W.E.K.; "Mechanical Engineering at the National Research Council of Canada, 1929-1951" indexes the craft as "Tailless glider" (lower case g). Page 259 captions a photograph "The tailless glider on the ground" (lower case t and g).[6]

There appears to be a strong consensus here for "tailless glider" (lower case t and g wherever it is not in capitalised captions or titles). Whether it should be credited to "NRL" or "NRC" is less definite. Although finding more WP:RS might reveal more examples of "NRC tailless glider", those above (discounting Flight's muddled use of both) show a 2:0 majority for explicitly "NRL tailless glider" but a 2:1 majority if we make minor interpretation of article titles. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:21, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add, I'm happy to leave the decision between NRL tailless glider and NRC tailless glider to you (the other could do with creating as a redirect). Either is preferable to the current title. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I was going by published secondary sources, but don't have access to several books by Milberry, but he referred to it as the NRC tailless glider in several books I have read. I do have Fuller, George A.; Griffin, John A.; Molson, Kenneth M. (1983). 125 Years of Canadian Aeronautics: A Chronology 1840-1965. Willowdale, ON: Canadian Aviation Historical Society. ISBN 978-0920610022. :

p.247 "The first flight of a tailless glider developed at National Research Council, Ottawa, from a design by Prof. G.T.R. Hill"

p.257 "The NRC tailless glider made a 2,300 mile towed flight from Namao, Alberta to Arnprior, Ontario..."

Since NRL was a department of the NRC, and with both names being used, however NRC is much better known than NRL so I think it should go to the parent organization, as NRC tailless glider.NiD.29 (talk) 17:46, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]