Talk:Muslim Association of the Lictor

What is "Lictor"

Lictor isn't an english word. What is it supposed to mean ? The english translation of the italian word "littorio" would be "littoral" or just "coast". Eregli bob (talk) 11:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

See lictor. --Soman (talk) 22:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Nasser & Arafat were "Greenshirts"

I am adding here excerpts from a book showing ACADEMICS (and not "fringe theories") evidences of the fact that Nasser & Arafat were "greenshirts" linked to the Muslim association of the Lictor (additionally please read another book section on google books : https://books.google.com/books?id=ZzpLuWucftIC&pg=PT109&lpg=PT109&dq=Nasser+fascista+nel+1940&source=bl&ots=zaTaSUiVup&sig=By90PakhcwalaWXlAATftpJUK-4&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7__6a1obdAhVBs1kKHRjDDHQQ6AEwCnoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=Nasser%20fascista%20nel%201940&f=false , were can be read that Nasser and Arafat contacted Rommel during WW2 ):

ITALIAN INFLUENCE IN BRITISH PALESTINE & EGYPT (1934-1942)

Italy did in the 1930s some attempts to export the Fascist revolution to areas formally and informally controlled by Britain in Egypt and Palestine. The challenge mounted by the Italian government to the British imperial structure rested upon the development of preferential relations with nationalist movements throughout the empire; such relationship would be forged by propaganda in a region, the southern and eastern shores of the Mediterranean, which was central to Mussolini’s foreign policy.

The promotion of Fascist ideology among the Middle Eastern populations, and in particular in Egypt and Palestine, was driven by political priorities rather than ideological imperatives insofar as propaganda was carefully employed to expand the economic and military capacity of Fascist Italy.

While the Italians in Palestine were a few thousands (mostly Italian jews), the size of the community in Egypt had reached around 55,000 persons just before World War II, forming the second largest expatriate community in Egypt and greatly influencing the local society. The expansion of the colonial Italian Empire after World War I was even directed toward Egypt by Benito Mussolini, in order to control the Suez Canal.

So, the Italian "Duce" created in the late 1920s/early 1930s some sections of the National Fascist Party (NFP) in Alexandria and Cairo, and many hundreds of Italian Egyptians become members of it. Even some Italo-egyptian intellectuals, like Filippo Tommaso Marinetti (founder of the "Futurism") and the famous poet Giuseppe Ungaretti, were supporters of the Italian nationalism in their native Alexandria and promoted the Italian influence in Egypt. Furthermore, some egyptians were influenced by the ideals of the fascism promoted by the NFP sections in Egypt, like the founder of the "Muslim Brotherhood" Al-Hasan Al-Banna. As a consequence, during World War II the British authorities interned in concentration camps nearly 8,000 Italian Egyptians with sympathy for Italian fascism, in order to prevent sabotage after the Italian Army attacked western Egypt in summer 1940. However until 1941 the king Faisal of Egypt (famous for his pro-Italian attitude & sympathies) always successfully blocked those internments.

Consequently many young arabs were influenced by Italian fascism. The most famous were Anwar Sadat and Gamal Abdel Nasser, two important presidents of Egypt after WWII. Sadat was active in many political movements, including the "Muslim Brotherhood", the fascist "Young Egypt", the pro-palace "Iron Guard", and a secret military group called the "Free Officers", which sought to liberate Egypt from British influence with help from the Axis powers. He spent much of World War II in jail for aiding Italy & Germany in their efforts to force the British from Egypt. Nasser was a member of the fascist organization "Young Egypt" for 2 years just before WWII. When the Italo-german troops of Rommel attacked Egypt in 1941, Nasser -then a young officer of the Egyptian Army- declared that he was ready for a "revolt" against the British empire in case the Axis reached the Nile delta.

Indeed in the summer of 1942, when Rommel's Afrikakorps stood just over 100 kilometers from Alexandria and were poised to march into Cairo, Sadat, Nasser and their buddies were in close touch with the Italo-german attacking force and —even with Muslim Brotherhood help— preparing an anti-British uprising in Egypt's capital. A treaty with the Axis including provisions for recognition of an independent, but pro-Axis Egypt had been drafted by Sadat, guaranteeing that “no British soldier would leave Cairo alive”. When Rommel's push east failed at El Alamein in the fall of 1942, Sadat and several of his co-conspirators were arrested by the British and sat out much of the remainder of the war in jail.

For about five years, from the end of 1933 to the end of 1938, political life in Egypt saw the rise of paramilitary youth groups known as the "Green Shirts", founded by the fascist Young Egypt Society ("Misr al-Fatah") that was created in October 1933 by the attorney Ahmed Hussein, and the "Blue Shirts", founded by the Wafd nationalist (and half-fascist) Party for its younger members. Mussolini openly supported the Green Shirts, who were said to be even connected to the main adviser of king Faruk, the Italo-egyptian Antonio Pulli until his forced resignation on February 4, 1942.

After 1939 grew in importance the secret military organization called Free Officers ("Al-Dubbat al-Hahrar") that even worked with the Italian secret services (SIM) to create manifestations & revolts in Egypt against the British rule, mainly in summer 1942 (read Italian SIM and Egypt fascists during WW2, in Italian language

). Indeed when the Axis troops reached El Alamein in summer 1942, the Italian & German secret services -according to the British Intelligence service- promoted huge demonstrations in the main Egyptian cities, where crowds of thousands of Egyptians screamed "Away the British empire" and "Welcome Axis" and a popular revolt was feared by the Allies. As a consequence in 1942/43 nearly 6000 egyptian officers (like Sadat) were interned for security reasons in concentration camps by the British military for some years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.77.37.233 (talk) 22:02, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Again, no relation to the article subject, which is the Muslim Association of the Lictor. You're just trying to hijack the article for soapboxing purposes. --Soman (talk) 07:29, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, first you erase my excerpts with the comment "fringe theory" and now you offend me a bit with the comment "soapboxing"....WOW....Anyway, I have added an academic evidence (written by the same Sadat) of why it is related to the article subject. Please, because I think you are a serious wikipedian, allow me to ask you to bring a professional/academic evidence of why you erase my excerpts (and not only the words "soapboxing attempt", etc...). Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.77.37.233 (talk) 16:15, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Again:

1) The "libro nero" (which doesn't seem to be a particularly scholarly work from a first glance) page doesn't mention AML at all.

2) The copy-pasted text above doesn't mention AML at all.

3) An autobiography is not a scholarly work. And the cited pages conveniently absent online. How come a short quote is attributed to pages 26-38?? And even if we were to presume that Sadat claimed had some contacts with 1 senior AML official, that's far insufficient to build a major argument on.

4) The atimes link doesn't mention AML.

5) The ariannaeditrice link doesn't mention AML.

6) The argument that you try to make here appears to be a deliberate POV push, seeking to overemphasize any linkage between Nazi Germany (by extension) and modern Arab politicians. Those edits distort the historical role played by AML (and counterparts in other areas of the Italian colonial conquest) as platforms to integrate conquered territories within the Italian state and seeking to reconcile the inherent contradiction of multinational fascism. AML was a vertical construct, created on orders from Rome. It had no political autonomy to speak of. --Soman (talk) 17:08, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I am a bit astonished by the fact that you, Soman, only erase and erase and erase....but never add any serious evidence against the links between Sadat-Nasser and the fascist arab organization in Libya. Not one single evidence!!! I added -after difficult research, believe me- four evidences (from the atimes to others) and wrote excerpts from the essay "Italian propaganda in Egypt and Palestine" in the talk page showing the existence of those links. But you wanted the clear and written evidence of these links, so I was able to find in a book written by the same Sadat a precise evidence! But for you Sadat is not an academic and so -as seems for you to be usual- you erase again all these evidences...WOW...Sincerely, astonishing! At this point allow me to ask you a simple question: who are you to judge Sadat -a worldwide respected former president of Egypt- not noteworthy to have his own words published on Wikipedia? And additionally you write -with poisonous suspicion- that "How come a short quote is attributed to pages 26-38?" while all of us know that little points (like "....") indicate that there are omitted sentences/words in excerpts of many pages! Not only that, but you also write that "some contacts with 1 senior AML official, that's far insufficient"....at this point I want to remind you that Wikipedia is full of articles based on one single contact/opinion/sentence, etc...I could pinpoint many of these examples!!!! And finally you offend a bit me "again" writing that I "try to make here appears to be a deliberate POV push, seeking to overemphasize any linkage between Nazi Germany (by extension) and modern Arab politicians": please, note that I am NOT writing about Nazi Germany but only about Italian fascist organizations. I have never written the word "Nazi Germany" in Wikipedia until now, do you understand? Last but not least, I have added another excerpt about the link of a high ranking Libyan personality (Mustafa Maizran) and Sadat. Anyway, DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH THIS ARTICLE, I will no more write on Wikipedia (and this is a proof that I don't want to promote POVs, like you wrote!). I am disgusted -SINCERELY- by all your erases without you adding anything of evidence. I don't know if in your India this is the way people make their discussions, but I am out of these continuous erases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.77.37.233 (talk) 17:01, 27 August 2018 (UTC)