Talk:Michele Ferrari

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Untitled

hello - would love for this article to be expanded - a contraversial figure...... Petesmiles 09:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Athletes associated with Michele Ferrari

Is the "Sportsmen" section supposed to refer to cyclists associated (or believed to be associated) with Ferrari? Ian Glenn 02:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I changed "Sportsmen" to "Athletes associated with Michele Ferrari". Should names in this list be referenced? I've seen Cadel Evans name come and go from this list (with no comments), as well as the addition of Michael Rasmussen, which I've only seen in the media as pure speculation (does speculation count as association?) scotts 20:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added Evans and I came back today to remove his name since he himself corrected the Suddeutsche Zeitung in his diary. Luckily enough, it was already gone. Still, it's possible he has seen him, if only once, but a coach (doctor) is a coach (or doctor), and not someone you "know". Evans himself called Ferrari "controversial", so this really contradicts what was in the press.

Most of the other names have been added by me too and were found on the very decent French 'Cyclisme et Dopage' website and the Cyclingnews website. Whether Rasmussen was amongst them, I should verify, but I believe he was not. Perhaps someone was overenthousiastic. Speculation only counts as association if it's experts saying so (like Werner Franke: he lost the trial from Ullrich, but who will be closest to the truth in the end, when Swiss bank accounts are checked). (for those interested: Ullrich did "confess", just look at his replies to some of the last letters he got - it's between the lines, but it's clear). And what Moser is shouting these days, I can not understand either (but we all remember when EPO-tests were being developed, Riis was the first to deliver his blood for these purposes - the guilty man is the first to help the police search the wrong guys). Goodnight and please discuss before making these kind of unfunded changes.--Selach 23:09, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Drferrari.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are so many obvious problems with this article I hardly know where to start.

Many problems with this article

There are so many obvious problems with this article I hardly know where to start.
It makes repeated claims that are not sourced. This article needs gone through practicely line by line and the unsourced quotes and other material needs to be removed. Much of what is in here if not provable could be considered libelous. Use of "Erwann Menthéour etc." as a source for the very serious allegations "Michele Ferrari was one of the best doping doctors, with unparalleled expertise at avoiding detection." is vastly insufficient. Mentheour is a former rider that wrote a book full of unsubstantiated accusations much like the the books David Walsh has written about Lance Armstrong. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it can be used as a source

"Ferrari was involved with the US Postal Service Cycling Team until October 2004, helping Armstrong to seven straight Tour de France victories." "involved is vague and leading and the statement about helping him win 7 tours in a row is bad math. 2004 is six tour, not seven, and I think Lance broke with him in 2002.
I could go on and on with this article and perhaps will later.
I think it should be considered that Dr. Ferrari won his court appeals and stands not convicted of any crimes and has never been sanctioned.
I know what this wiki is about. The writer want people to beleive Ferrari and his secret undetectable drug programs are responsible for Lance's 7 wins, which is highly debatable to say the very least.
This article is not in the spirt of Wiki and need fixed or removed.
I know very little at this point on how to do that.

Jackhammer111 (talk) 05:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are always going to be people who want to use Wiki to push a particular viewpoint. That's why there are the requirements for sourcing and NPOV. This article still fails the sourcing requirement, but Dr. Ferrari's own quote about EPO not being harmful (which I sourced today) and the one piece of sourcing still required (regarding his reputation as a doping doctor) create the image of a "Dr. Feelgood", even if he was ultimately acquitted on a technicality by an Italian court. The article still needs work, though -- for example, it should discuss how Michael Rogers' team forced him to stop working with Ferrari because of Ferrari's reputation and should focus less on Armstrong. AyaK (talk) 23:27, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

check my changes, there was no "technicality" involved in the appellate decision. it's another myth.

now that much, not all, of the unsourced material has been removed from this page someone needs to reorganize this page. i'm open to suggestions although this page isn't drawing much attention. but it probably will as we near the TDF next year. we also need to thing seriously about why their needs to be a list of athletes he may have worked with here at all. there are no such lists in the bios of other coaches. it's obvious that it's an attempt a guilt by association because of the accusations some cycling fans make about ferrari. it needs to be written properly as a BLP and detail who he worked with in what capacity on what team and in what years if it wants to name names. it is true he was once criminally charged and more about that would be appropriate as long as it sticks to facts regarding the findings of the trial, ie found not guilty of charges related to actually doping athletes, guilty of medical malpractice and a sporting fraud charge that i'm having trouble finding facts on, but both overturned on appeal where the judge said in his official finding "because the facts do not exist to support these charges." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackhammer111 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Michele Ferrari/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article is poorly sourced

Last edited at 05:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 23:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Clientele

Is nobody concerned that the sources for all those names, living persons, are totally absurd? The first one is merely a ABOUT a documentary so it fails verifiable. It names no names. The other is worse because it does name names and to conclude this to be a reliable source is absurd. It does not account for nearly all the names published here. Again of living persons. The article names 13 names. This page names 33. Including Cadel Evans who has never been credibly associated with doping at all and Roman Kreuziger who has not been associated with Ferrari and isn't even claimed to be in the source article. And it's source, the papers from the Ferrara, are from a failed prosecution much of which had nothing to do with Ferrari and those papers are not verifiable. The writer of the source article is using an unverifiable source. It seems doping hysterics love Wikipedia. Many pages about riders do not come close to living up to the same standards used on other topics. They gang up on dissenters and generally make editing cycling related wikis a miserable experience. I have had it happen. By wiki standards especially involving living people every name on that list that can't be separately properly sourced should be removed. I hope to hear discussion about this. Absent that I'll delete the whole list, leaving the part about Armstrong and Hamilton which is properly sourced. I expect the rules of writing and editing to be the same wherever I go in Wikipedia. Jackhammer111 (talk) 03:36, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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