Talk:Mehmed Handžić

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mehmed Handžić/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ganesha811 (talk · contribs) 01:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi! I'll be reviewing this article, using the template below. I see the first review did not get finished. Thanks for your patience in waiting for someone to pick this up! —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

OakMapping, I see you haven't edited since February. If you could confirm that you're still active on Wikipedia by replying to this message, say in the next week, I'll move ahead with a full review. For now, I'll just check against the quick-fail criteria. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:44, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Alternately, if someone else is available and willing to respond to comments, I'm more than happy to work with them as well - just let me know on this page or on my talk page. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Vice regent: I see you've been editing the page recently. Would you be willing to make changes in response to comments for this GA review? —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:52, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ganesha811: definitely. Thanks for taking the time to do this review. Please notify me via the pint template (as you did above) and I'll try to get to the comments in a timely manner. VR _talk 03:02, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

FYI - I may not have time to continue the review until Sunday, but will complete it then. —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

@Vice regent: some comments for you to respond to below. Thanks for your patience! —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:35, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I'll respond to 1a soon. Can you explain your objection 6a? I don't see why the image is not relevant or anything wrong with its caption. Thanks, VR _talk 04:42, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Do you mean 6b? That's where I mention the caption. I'm suggesting you add the word "a" to the caption, as I have done in my comment. —Ganesha811 (talk) 04:46, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

@Vice regent: how soon will you have time for the comments below? This one is pretty close to GA - I think we can get there soon! —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Vice regent:; any updates? Otherwise I may have to close the review soon. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:48, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ganesha811: as you can see I've already addressed some of your concerns and will address the rest in next few days. Sorry, I've been fairly busy off-wiki lately.VR _talk 21:03, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ganesha811: I believe I have now addressed all concerns. Let me know if there's something I missed. Thanks for taking the time to give feedback.VR _talk 17:06, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	It's not clear either in the lead or the body whether his 1938 candidacy was successful. I presume it was not, but clarification in the text is needed. Was the kuttab distinguishable in any way? Could we say "local" kuttab or similar? Is Ruşdiye a particular high school, or a type of education? Clarify in text. Probably "graduated" instead of "finished" would be clearer. "where he was regarded as one of the best students." needs a citation "Al Jewhar al asna fi tarajim 'ulama' wa shu'ra' al-Bosna" - was this a thesis or something else? Clarify. "Muslim Brotherhood or Young Muslims" do we not know which, or do you mean both? "he engaged other fields of work in Islamic associations" What does this mean? Unclear. "Higher Islamic School" - where was this? Is this a specific school or a description? "representing the 'ilmiyya (body of Ulama) to becoming the leading organization of the revivalist movement meant to encompass all Muslims of Bosnia" does this mean that it started out as an academic movement and became a popular movement? Clarify. "published by El-Hidaje, created a basic contour of Bosniak nationalism" published when? What was the "routine medical operation" supposed to be for? Do we know? I presume since there is no mention, that Handzic never had a family/children? Issues addressed. {ass
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Pass, no issues.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Pass, no issues.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Sources are reliable; pass.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Pass, no issues.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	None found by Earwig or manual spot-check. Pass.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Not able to find any other significant sources on Handzic or other parts of his life not addressed here. Pass.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Pass, no issues of overdetail.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Pass, no issues, good given it touches on some controversial topics.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	No issues. Pass.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	File:Mehmed Handzic.jpg could use a US copyright tag in addition to a Croatian one. File:Khanji jawhar.png seems to have an upload date instead of a creation date and could also use a US copyright tag. Issues addressed. Pass.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Cover of Al Jewhar al asna fi tarajim 'ulama' wa shu'ra' al-Bosna, a work in Arabic Handžić authored while studying in Cairo Addressed, pass.
	7. Overall assessment.

Response to the 1a feedback:

• It's not clear either in the lead or the body whether his 1938 candidacy was successful. I presume it was not, but clarification in the text is needed.
  • I saw several sources that mention him as a candidate. I also assume it wasn't successful, but could not find a source to say that. Its worth noting his party/faction lost that election (they remained opposition).
• Was the kuttab distinguishable in any way? Could we say "local" kuttab or similar?
  • I'm fine with that.
• Is Ruşdiye a particular high school, or a type of education? Clarify in text. Probably "graduated" instead of "finished" would be clearer.
  • Rusdiye schools seem to be an alternative to the madrassa system in the Ottoman empire. For now we should just redlink it and hope an article will be created on them soon.
• "where he was regarded as one of the best students." needs a citation
  • Fixed and expanded.
• "Al Jewhar al asna fi tarajim 'ulama' wa shu'ra' al-Bosna" - was this a thesis or something else? Clarify.
  • I saw multiple sources on this, all call it just a work. I have expanded this a bit, but I haven't found any source calling it the equivalent of a thesis. At the time it happened, Al-Azhar may have had differences from a Western style university, so it may not have had an exact thesis equivalent at that time.
• "Muslim Brotherhood or Young Muslims" do we not know which, or do you mean both?
  • The source actually just says "or" without clarifying which one.
• "he engaged other fields of work in Islamic associations" What does this mean? Unclear.
  • I have sought clarification for this on talk. The source is inaccessible to me.
• "Higher Islamic School" - where was this? Is this a specific school or a description?
  • The source uses capitals, which indicates that is the name of the institution (btw, I fixed the name). But I couldn't find anything more on this. The source mentions it in the context of Gazi Husrev-beg Mosque, which hints that that it might be associated with it - but it doesn't explicitly say so. Our text also mentions it in the same context, hence I think we already have a good balance of explaning things while still remaining true to our sources.
• "representing the 'ilmiyya (body of Ulama) to becoming the leading organization of the revivalist movement meant to encompass all Muslims of Bosnia" does this mean that it started out as an academic movement and became a popular movement? Clarify.
  • I think it means it started off as a purely theological organization, but then expanded its scope to take on more a "revivalist" role and aimed to represent Bosnian Muslims in general.
• "published by El-Hidaje, created a basic contour of Bosniak nationalism" published when?
  • Fixed.
• What was the "routine medical operation" supposed to be for? Do we know?
  • Nothing I could find.
• I presume since there is no mention, that Handzic never had a family/children?
  • Correct and I added a source that explicitly says that.

VR _talk 17:06, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vice regent: thanks for these fixes. Just image copyright left to go! —Ganesha811 (talk) 10:53, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure how copyright works...I'm going to need to learn this. Might be a few more days. Do you know if I can ask someone for help in this? VR _talk 20:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I would try at the Commons Help Desk. I've gotten good advice there in the past. —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:35, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Done. Btw, I'm curious about where it says US copyright tags are required? The criterion says "media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content". Presumably non-US copyright tags should suffice for that? VR _talk 02:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Generally I read WP:NUSC as requiring that images be available under US copyright in some way, whether that's public domain, a CC license, or fair use. I think for GA standard, it's important not to have any lingering copyright questions. Thanks for asking over there and I hope the folks over at Commons can help out! —Ganesha811 (talk) 11:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vice regent: I see you got some good advice there and I just took another look at the images; am I right in thinking that these issues have now been resolved, especially as Handzic died in 1944, so before the 1946 Egyptian cutoff date? —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:17, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I'm thinking too.VR _talk 15:59, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

In that case, this article now passes GA! Congrats to you and to all the others who worked on it. 16:07, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Questions

Hello OakMapping, I see you wrote "he enrolled in Al-Azhar University in Egypt where he was considered one of the best students." The source seems inaccessible, and its in Bosnian, a language I don't understand. Can you confirm that this statement is in this source? Or is it in a different source? Otherwise we can remove the "one of the best students" part, as his enrollment in Al-Azhar is well attested to by other sources.VR _talk 02:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Actually, I found an English source for that. My next question is what exactly is meant by "he engaged other fields of work in Islamic associations"? I see that is also sourced to the same source.VR _talk 03:37, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

References

G’day, well done on the article promotion. The Books and Articles should be alpha-ordered. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 16:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)