Talk:Marcus Besen

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An item related to this article has been nominated to appear on the Main Page in the "In the news" section. You can visit the nomination to take part in the discussion. Editors are encouraged to update the article with information obtained from reliable news sources to include recent events.
Notice date: 10 November 2023. Please remove this template when the nomination process has concluded, replacing it with Template:ITN talk if appropriate.

"He was the co-founder of fashion retailer Sussan"

How can this be if Besen arrived in Australia after the war, in 1947? It seems clear that Sussan was founded in 1939. Just asking...Kelisi (talk) 05:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kelisi: - you are exactly right. This is spelled out later, in the "Career" section: "In the 1950s, he went into business with John Gandel running the Sussan clothing stores that had been started by John's parents". I will update that wording. Gronk Oz (talk) 09:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Suitability of possibly self-published source for basic information

In this edit, @Kuru: removed the reference to the World Biographical Encyclopedia with the explanation "rmv non-WP:RS : user editable or scraped content with explicit disclaimers of accuracy". This was the only source for Besen's date and place of birth, resulting in these later being tagged with "failed verification". I can't find those "explicit disclaimers of accuracy" but in any case I think this use meets the criteria at WP:SELFSOURCE for using self-published information:

The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim.
It does not involve claims about third parties (such as people, organizations, or other entities).
It does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject.
There is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity.
The Wikipedia article is not based primarily on such sources.

So I propose putting that reference back, for those statements. Is there any objection? Gronk Oz (talk) 09:55, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I still object. Prabook is a Belarussian open wiki, with zero editorial oversight and a long history of scraping information from various copyrighted sources, including unattributed and unlicensed copies of material from Wikipedia. SELFSOURCE is applicable to information published by the subject of the article. That's incredibly unlikely; anyone can edit, delete, or add any claim they wish and there's no indication that the subject of the article endorsed or added the material. You can read the prior disclaimers noted in my edit summary here, although they've moved them to the TOS page here and watered it down. Still an indicator that it's zero oversight. Prior RSN discussions are here: [1], [2], [3], [4]. If you're seeing something I'm not, let me know, or start a new discussion at RSN. Sam Kuru (talk) 12:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your detailed response, @Kuru: - I have found a much better reference for those details (an obituary in the Sydney Morning Herald, which is a major newspaper). I hope this is satisfactory now.--Gronk Oz (talk) 03:23, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect! Sam Kuru (talk) 03:31, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]