Talk:Maltese cuisine/Archive 1

Archive 1

No Recipies Please

I do not think an encyclopedia is the right place for recipes. There is WikiBooks' Cookbook for that. As of now there is nothing on it about Maltese cuisine. Consider contributing there rather than adding recipes here. --Inkiwna (talk) 09:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Maltese Cuisne Text

My Malta cuisine text is fuller, with more historical references, more accurate, more descriptive than the one I keep replacing.

It describes Maltese cuisine as a distinctive cusine in its own right and unapologectically, not demeaning it by describing as a "mixture" of this and that - an ill informed though much repeated cliché that is not justified since ALL cuisines, not only Maltese cuisine, are influenced by territory, climate and history. This merely debases Maltese cuisine which IS disctinctive, which has a much much longer repertoire of wonderful dishes than the brief list here.

I am also sick of seeing Maltese dishes described as the "Maltese version of...." especially when they patently aren't , e.g. Hobz biz- zejt / Bruschetta.

Catalans don't decscribe their tomato rubbed bread drizzled with oil as the Spanish version of Bruschetta or Pan Bagnat or Hobz bi zejt. Italians don't decsribe "Friggione" and "Cianfotta" as the "Italian version of ratatouille".

Please compare the current and previous entries for "Kapunata" and "Kusksu" tell me which version is more precise, more informative? May be you should consult the Malta Tourist Board and see which version they think better.

By the way comparing Pastizzi to Indian Samosas leaves me speechless, they have absolutely nothing in common beyond being small pastry pockets.

While content like that below is supremely irrelevant to the topic of Maltese cuisine:

1 - This has also given rise to the expression "Kannol bla Krema" (a Kannol without cream, therefore and a hollow shell). This is used pejoratively of a person to indicate they are worthless, most specifically in politics with reference to campaign activists below the age of 18, therefore not eligible to vote under Maltese electoral law.

Incidentally someone has previously commented - above - there should be more on the nature of Maltese cuisine - cooking styles and methods, typical ingredients etc - and no list of dishes, which belongs more correctly in the Wiki Cook book / Recipe book. So I will add the intro on the characteristics of Maltese sucuisine shortly!

Finally I see no need for produce and dishes to be repeatedly and tiresomely preceded by the adjective "Maltese" as in "Maltese swordfish", "Maltese Bean Dip" " Maltese Baked Roie" "Maltese Easter Sweet" " Maltese Fish Soup" - that they are Maltese is obvious as they are on this page. The adjective is only necessary for the few very items where not using the term is insuffiuciently specific : Maltese Sausage, Maltese Bread

Thank You

87.19.241.223 (talk) 06:03, 20 August 2008 (UTC) Marmaltija

Despite efforts from people above, this article has remained little more than an odd list of foods described as being "Maltese" (with no mention of how far Maltese and how prevalent in Malta some dishes are). There is no reference to history, how foreign dishes were absorbed and, at the same time, transformed into Maltese culinary folklore or how it relates to issue of identity.

As it is, it looks little more than something that's been lifted from a fawning receipe book.

I'll attempt a re-write. Other who'd be ready to contribute are, of course, welcome.

Demdem (talk) 12:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Started adding other sections of more encyclopediac interest. My plan would be to include a section on the issue of cuisine and identity (based on the work of anthropologists), hiving off some foods, plus removing stuff that's definitely not part of Maltese cuisine (it does not qualify just because it is eaten in Malta). Maybe a note on the imaginged "Mediterranean cuisine". I was also thinking about a section on regional and seasonal variations.

Demdem (talk) 21:19, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I have noticed that in other instances there are two separate articles, one referring to cuisine (e.g. Italian cuisine, Spanish cuisine, etc.) and one referring to a list of dishes (viz. List of Italian dishes, List of Spanish dishes).

I suggest splitting this article likewise, the current list being transferred to a new article "List of Maltese dishes" while expanding the current article as indicated earlier.

Demdem (talk) 14:33, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Commercial Products?

Should commercially produced Soft Drinks (Sodas) and packets of snacks be included here?

I don't think any commercially produced items should be included in an article on Traditional Maltese cuisine, which I take to mean *traditional* *home* *cooking*.

They don't fit any of the three adjectives that describe the content.

I am afraid it may be commercially produced breakfast cereals, biscuits and soups mixes next ......

213.156.49.142 (talk) 06:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

(213.156.49.142 (talk) 05:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC))

Headings

I just started to reduce part of this huge list article into an article with headings and listed dishes. It need to be changed much more from there to deal with the particular cuisine, I hope others will help.--Chef Tanner (talk) 05:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

POV

As I said earlier, most of this article is lifted (possibbly plagiarised) from a receipe book. At the very lease POV should be removed not to mention the various suggestions of what to add to this or that. As an example, describing Ministra as a "hearty soup", accompanied by Maltese bread (does it have to?) and that it is a "health, warming one dish dinner" is POV. Most people of my generation when confronted with minestra on returning home from school would view it as punishment, and hoping that the real treat was still on the way. Same goes to what kind of tomato sauce you add to the raviolo. Toasted ravioli btw is the standard name of something that's popular in Sicily.

Demdem (talk) 06:07, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

You have turned a useful article that described Maltese CUISINE and its many unique dishes and their origin into a limited article that reads like an article on ( a small part) of the history not the cuisine of Malta. Unlike its predecessor, this version is at pains to emphasise only the European part of a great cuisine, and it is therefore unbalanced. And it relegates Maltese cuisine to copy book status - copying Europe of course. You have removed references to the clearly Arabic and North African origin of many dishes, most notably the sweet dishes, though there is nothing you can do to disguise the Arabic names of many Maltese dishes. You may know a lot about some parts of Maltese history but you are quite clearly not a cuisine expert. What is wrong with recipes - and their historic, geographical and ethnic origins - being described in an article on CUISINE? And why discard/ignore any influences prior to the mid 16th century arrival of the (European, Christian) knights on the island unless you have an axe to grind? You state the previous one reads "as if it was plagiarised from a recipe book". That is strong accusation to make with no back up at all! Which recipe book exactly? There are only a limited number of Malta recipe books so can you please name the one it was "plagiarised" from? If you cannot back up your accusation with proof you should never make it in the first place. And in any case a recipe book would be a more appropriate source for an article on gastronomy than a couple of stand alone academic history papers presenting a particular hypothesis. Cuisine - cooking and eating - happens in the real world and cooks write and read recipes books.

Finally, Minestra IS a healthy (legumes and vegetables), hearty (thick, chunky, filling) one dish dinner; these are facts not POV. Even if you did/do personally not like it - and do you honestly think you can speak for "most people" of your generation? I think this is just YOUR POV about this dish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.39.235.140 (talk) 13:05, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

The previous article could only have been described as "useful" in so far as it could have launched a new idiom "to miss the cuisine for the dishes". Well, you'd be happy to know that since you last show up there was a split. No need for further details there since, from the edits, you seem to have discovered the List of Maltese dishes article.

As to the pre-Christian heritage of Maltese food, well, go ahead and write something rather than complain. I would relish reading any contribution in that regard although I do hope it's not a question of spinning something out of a mere name.

On the charge of plagiarism note please the "as if it was ..." preceding. I have no time and no interest in tracing where all the fawning comes from.

Finally, please remember that being encyclopedic is an obligation of Wikipedia. Not reading like a cookbook.

Demdem (talk) 20:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)