Talk:Louis, Count of Clermont

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Move Page

This page needs to be renamed, or moved, to the correct title. The name "Louis de Bourbon-Condé" is incorrect. It should be titled, "Louis de Bourbon, Comte de Clermont". The error is entirely mine. I originally copied it from an incorrect source. However, in reading the instructions for "moving" or "renaming" a page it instructs me to use the "quickbar." But I'll be darned if I can figure out what a "quickbar" is. I'm just too much of a Wikipedia rookie, or else I'm just not as technically savvy as some Wikipedists. Help me, please.PGNormand 19:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What makes you think "Louis de Bourbon-Condé, Comte de Clermont" is incorrect? That's his name as given in Willis, Daniel, The Descendants of Louis XIII, Clearfield Co., Inc., Baltimore, Maryland, 1999, ISBN 0-8063-4942-5. p. 74. - Nunh-huh 19:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an expert on the manner in which the French nobility chose to hyphenate their names (or not). I originally found him listed as "Louis de Bourbon-Condé," as you did. On the other hand, I have read all the other Wikipedia articles on his ancestors, and the convention used here in Wikipedia seems to be that the name used for him and his brothers, father, uncles, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, etc. is "Bourbon" without the name "Condé" being hyphenated onto it. However, his sisters are all "Bourbon-Conde." So, go figure. (See the list of his siblings in the article on his father, Louis III, Prince of Condé.) Maybe they are both correct, but I think the usage should be consistent. The authors of the other articles know a lot more about the names of French nobility than I do, so I yield to their superior knowledge on the subject. I hope that your knowledge of the subject is not limited to one book.PGNormand 19:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, my knowledge of the subject is not limited to one book. Thanks for suggesting it, though. - Nunh-huh 22:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then my "hope" has born fruit. But you did not enlighten me on the seeming inconsistency with the other articles where the male line does not hyphenate the name "Bourbon" with the name "Condé." Can you enlighten me?PGNormand 23:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Having waited two months with no answer forthcoming, it is apparent that you cannot enlighten me, or anyone else for that matter. PGNormand 16:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The current article title is correct: "Louis de Bourbon-Condé, comte de Clermont." The conventions for the nobility do not apply, as he was of royal birth; names for royals were determined individually (after all, who would have wanted to argue with Louis XIV?). The "Bourbon" denotes that he was a legitimated grandson of Louis XIV and Mme Montespan; the Condé denotes that he was the grandson of le grand Condé, the guy who built much of Chantilly. The current Wikipedia title matches the standard reference in the 19th century (Beauvais, Dictionnaire historique, 1826, vol. 1, p. 663), the standard reference in the 20th century (Dictionnaire de biographie française, eds. Prevost & d'Amat, vol. 8, col. 1491), and French Wikipedia. Bmwilcox (talk) 04:31, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a very late reply, but I'll make it nevertheless. Bourbon is the proper surname, and, in this case, denotes direct descent from the Louis I, Duke of Bourbon, first duke of Bourbon. The members of the House of Conde are perfectly legitimate, but illegitimate/legitimated descendants of Henry IV and Louis XIV also use the surname Bourbon, after the name of the royal house. The hyphened Conde is merely a clarification of the name of the branch to which he belongs (because the House of Bourbon is a rather large family). Reigen (talk) 07:33, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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