Talk:Lofi hip-hop

This article should be re-written

I get it, "Lo-fi study beats" (LSB) is a popular meme. But lo-fi is so much wider than the LSB stereotype. To make a short overview of what this article totally omits, I'll outline the subgenres (or scenes, if you like) of lo-fi hip hop, that went completely unwritten about in the current article:

• So to name it, proto-lofi. J Dilla is obviously a big part of it. Nujabes is too, but to a much lesser degree. No mentions of the whole genre of alternative hip-hop beats of the 2000s in the current article, that lo-fi is totally stemming from in the first place. J Dilla and Madlib (who goes unmentioned here in the article) were the forerunners of that movement, in a sense, but not stricto sensu, because there were probably hundreds of other beatmakers doing the hissy/crackly underground hip-hop beats during the 00s. None of those are mentioned here. Not all of them will meet Wikipedia notability guidelines, but some obviously will.
• Late 2000s developments, wonky connection, FlyLo connection, Dibia$e connection, Dabrye connection etc. I don't think this scene ever had name apart from generic "wonky" or "glitch-hop" identifier. Huge influence on lo-fi, but goes unmentioned.
• Early 2010s chillwave/hipster connection/early 2010s hipster bandcamp beats. Goes unmentioned. May have never been properly described in media, so I get it, it may not meet notability criteria and be left unmentioned.
• The whole 2000s-2010s SP-Forums scene and the whole SP beats subgenre, beat competitions and further so also go completely unmentioned as of now. SP beats scene is itself heterogeneous, with Boss-202 beats sounding nothing like SP-303 beats and SP-404 beats. The reason is, each of these hardware machines has unique sets of effects, thus 202 beats and 404 beats sounds not too similar.
• Dakim style. A unique live-improvised style of lo-fi beats pioneered by dakim, using 100% feedback delay on 404. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PDDisPDDat (talk • contribs) 13:42, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
• Early 2010s soul-hop scene. Ohbliv, Awhlee, hundreds other beatmakers, whom I cannot recall off the top of my head, in the same style. The style is basically chops from the 80s soul, loaded into their 404s and layered with hard drum beats and 404 effects. The fun part of this subgenre is that they seemingly never bothered to hide/remove reverbed drums in their 80s chops and that adds a lot of broken syncopation into end result.
• Mid 2010s Japanese hardware-based (MPC, 404) so called psych-fi scene, which continues to this day. Yotaro, Ill-Sugi, Yasu-Pacino, Pornocomp and many other beatmakers. Dusty, overcompressed, jazzy lo-fi beats with unstable pitch, creating the "intoxicating" or "retro-futurist" effect. Not mentioned in the article at all, though arguably this scene is where most modern western mastodons of the genre, like SwuM, Saito, HM Surf, sabata, okho, tomppa took inspiration. These imitators from the west are probably the reason why lo-fi became mostly software-based, and why in the end it birthed the aforementioned "Lofi study beats" movement
• Early-mid 2010s German minimalist lo-fi scene, spearheaded by the ones like "wun two". Minimal, dusty, hypnotic hardware beats, with very hard drums and bass.
• Early-to-mid 2010s Project Mooncircle (and related labels) chill-hop scene, birthed from Japanese imitators and chillwave/hipster/bandcamp beat scene.
• Mid-late hobo rap lo-fi scene from the United States (Earl Sweatshirt, MIKE, others)
• Developments of the "Lofi study beats" subgenre, like dark lofi study beats, watered down japanese sad "emo" beats and so on.

Curious thing about the current situation with the article is that if the musical journalists had any interest in lo-fi back then when it was creatively booming (in the mid-2010s) any guy remotely related to the scene would envisage everything I have said off the top of their head, cause the whole scene existed as one at the fingertips, mostly on soundcloud and bandcamp. Subgenres mentioned here existed merely as styles (with exception of, probably, psych-fi scene which was usually very self-contained), and you wouldn't be to surprised, hypothetically talking, to hear wuntwo (german minimalist), then ohbliv (soul-hop), then yotaro (psych-fi), then swum (psych-fi imitator), then borealism (chill-hop) on consequent "Radio Juicy" mixes.

But journalists only started caring about the scene when the creativity got watered down by "Lofi girl" and similar channels and these channels went viral for fun and giggles as a meme. Hence the lamenting of the "insufficient creativity" that is discussed in the current state of article. -- PDD

LoFi HipHop - a meme?

Hey, just hoping to open up some discussion about this. There was previously a lot of language in this article referencing the genre as being a "meme". However, the only source cited to back this claim was an article on MTV.com, which contained a single speculative thought from the author, "Lo-fi hip-hop might be a meme", with nothing cited to backup the claim that it is indeed a meme.

While I understand that lofi playlists may be part of meme culture, this doesn't seem to make the entire genre a "meme". Music across all genres have been associated with memes, from rock, to hip hop, to classical, jazz, and so on and so on, these genres are of course not memes because of this. The artist Drake, for example, is featured prominently in many popular internet meme formats. These images are memes, but Drake himself, I would argue, is a separate entity and not a meme.

I have since removed the references to it being a "meme" - it seems to clearly be a genre of music and I can't find any reliable sources that state otherwise. If there are editors who disagree about this, I would love to hear their thoughts. 173.88.250.97 (talk) 16:29, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

There was a lot of editing here awhile ago by someone who clearly had an ax to grind with lofi hip hop for whatever reason. I think it definitely gave criticism in the article a lot of undue weight. Totally agree with the removal of the "meme" reference and glad you took it out.

I feel the same way about the box quote that is clumsily tacked onto the end of the article. There is no reason criticism of the genre needs to be emphasized over informative content about the genre itself, especially when that criticism comes from a countdown list and not even an article exclusively focused on lofi hip hop.

Likewise with the tacked on criticism sentence at the end of the lede. It's not even an accurate representation of the source, which never actually uses the word "clichéd." The word "simplicity" is also not used in the article with an exclusively negative connotation: (1) "the genre’s simplicity and general accessibility are responsible for both its popularity and its downfall"; (2) "'It’s very simple music...Yet it gives you that ‘good feeling.'"

I'm not against criticism of lofi hip hop being included in the article, but it should be done in accordance with Wikipedia:Criticism, and right now these sections seem to violate several tenants of that and other Wikipedia policies, so I'm going to remove them. If someone can do a better job integrating them into article, fine, but it doesn't need to be there for its own sake. "There is no requirement to include criticism or controversies in an article." TempDog123 (talk) 02:06, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

You're right, it doesn't use the word "cliche," it uses "hackneyed." Should we split hairs?

However, lofi hip-hop’s oversaturation also pushes a critical outlook of the genre. It receives criticism from music consumers about almost anything and everything, from the hackneyed looped anime GIFs to the overuse of the same samples and drum swings. As eevee puts it, “It gets boring at some point if everyone sounds the same.” In a separate HYPEBEAST interview with Knxwledge, the producer admitted that he even finds himself questioning the lofi material he uploads on SoundCloud. “It’s funny. I guess it’s the new SoundCloud vibe-type sh*t. SoundCloud’s not even tight anymore,” he said. “I go on Soundcloud to post sh*t and I’m like, ‘Honestly why am I doing this?’”

I have restored the text stating that the genre is also considered a meme because, well, it is, just like vaporwave. I was able to find an additional source for this claim. ili (talk) 00:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Old discussion but rejoining it. The fact the a single, or even two sources may exist, does not mean that the referenced statement should be included in an article. This is what undue weight is all about. IMHO, alone, the two sources you cited provided very weak, if any justification, to call the genre as a whole a 'meme'. One of them was idle speculation from an article, 'Lofi hip hop might be a meme'. It doesn't even take a stance and declare the genre a meme. While the other is clearly discussing a very specific type of youtube / channel playlist, not the genre as a whole.

Continuing on that point, there seems a tendency for people to conflate the youtube lofi playlists with the genre lofi hip hop as a whole. These are two very different and distinct things and it's important to note where one ends and the other begins.NamesAreNames (talk) 18:51, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Easy Listening?

Just hoping to have a discussion about this before I go crazy and do any edits. The lead was updated to include the statement,

"it has also been described as either a contemporary form of easy listening music or as a musical form sharing many tropes with earlier easy listening music."

With two cites, one a book, and the other a forbes article.

The Forbes article seems to cite a single person giving their opinion WRT a wide variety of genres, not just lo-fi hip hop, and doesn't give any examples of tropes shared with easy listening music. Likewise, the book citation does not give any examples of tropes shared with easy listening music and does not contain any explicit statements comparing LoFi hip hop to easy listening music.

Because of the lack of support in the citations for this statement, I would think it should be removed. This is because I believe it's giving undue weight to an opinion that does not have proper citations to support the claim. Curious what editors may think. 173.88.250.97 (talk) 01:20, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HipHop Music Culture

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 February 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Genstriker (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Yaeg512 (talk) 19:39, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hip-hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)