Talk:Llannerch-y-medd

Capitalisation of medd incorrect

Skinsmoke, I respect your motivation for moving this page as your record on improving Welsh articles recently is admirable, but in this case I think the premise for the change is mistaken. You say that 'Llannerch-y-Medd' is the "correct capitalisation per Ordnance Survey Election Maps and Office for National Statistics," however I'd beg to suggest that should read "a spelling given by Ordnance Survey Election Maps and Office for National Statistics". That does not mean that they are right. The general rule - admittedly not always followed because of the sometimes arbitary nature of the spelling of some Welsh placenames, even today - is that a common noun like medd should not be capitalised in a compound name. Plenty of examples on the web of 'Llannerch-y-medd', including the National Museum of Wales, the education authority Estyn, Archives Network Wales, North Wales Tourism board, the BBC, and the online Llyfrgell Owen Phrasebook. We have Llannerch-y-medd over on Welsh Wikipedia as it's regarded as the standard form. This is a purely Welsh name, not an anglicised one, and so no matter what the ONS and an OS map might say (my rather dated OS map for Anglesey has 'Llannerchymedd') the standard Welsh form should apply. I also see it is given as 'Llannerch-y-medd' in my Collins 4" to 1 mile GB road atlas. Enaidmawr (talk) 19:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bit confused on this one. Do we have a situation where the village and community have different names? And why, for heaven's sake? The capitalisation only seems to have appeared in recent years, the village having previously appeared as Llannerchymedd or Llanerchymedd. I Would suggest we try and clarify with either the community council or Isle of Anglesey County Council.

I have done a search on the county council's website which only adds to the confusion. I have tried to confine the search results to the last five years :-

Community or Town name: Llanerch y Medd from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Register of Deposits by Landowners under Section 31(6) Highways Act 1980

Address and postcode: Mynydd Mwyn Mawr, Llannerch y Medd, LL71 7AG from the same document

Applicant address & postcode: Melin Esgob, Llandyfrydog, Llanerchymedd, LL71 8AY from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Register of Applications to Divert or Extinguish Public Paths, Highways Act 1980 and Town and Country Planning Act 1990

M7 Gwyndy, Llanerchymedd : 395 795 : Igneaidd/Igneous from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Stopped UDP : Safleoedd Mwynau/Mineral Sites

Geographical Group: North Group; Main Centres: Amlwch; Secondary Centres: Cemaes, Llannerch-y-medd; Villages: Bull Bay (Porth Llechog), Penysarn, Llanfechell, Llanfaethlu, Rhosybol, Llanddeusant from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Stopped UDP : Chapter 16 : Housing and Population

Llanerch-y-medd from the same document

B5111 Amlwch to Llanerchymedd from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Stopped UDP : Chapter 12 : Transport

22) Llanerchymedd from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Maps

Jeni Farrell, Llanerch y Medd from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Bridleway Strategy : Consultees

Jeni Farrell at Llannerch y Medd and Gwen McCreadie at Dulas were interested in providing short-term livery with bed and breakfast facilities, however this would only be realistic if there was development of sustainable access – at present though there were places to ride locally these were permissive only and permission could be withdrawn. from the same document.

At the eastern end off the B5111 just north of Llanerchymedd, the path is a decent hedged lane and has a council weight restriction sign for the railway bridge suggesting it was constructed for vehicles. from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Bridleway Strategy : Appendix 6 : Existing Routes and Routes Suspected of having ‘Higher Rights’

Llannerch-y-medd from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Evidence Base : Demography

7 of the 31 pupils [23%] on roll in March 2009 lived outside the catchment area, 1 at Bodffordd, 1 from the Llannerch y Medd area, 4 live in Gwalchmai and 1 in Bryngwran. from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Primary School Rationalisation Consultation : Ysgol Llandrygarn and Ysgol Tŷ Mawr

63 : Llannerch-y-medd - Bangor from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Bus Strategy

Town/Village: Llannerch-y-Medd; Location: High Street; Annual/Seasonal: Annual; Disabled Facilities: Yes from Isle of Anglesey County Council : Public Conveniences on Anglesey

By that stage I was losing the will to live. The only conclusion I can draw is that people spell it however they are feeling at a particular moment, and that that feeling may change a few lines further into the report!

Skinsmoke (talk) 04:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(Copy of my reply at your talk page, for future reference)

We're faced with the same situation on Welsh Wikipedia. Where several spelling exist with no clear consensus we tend to use an online resource - which I forgot about last night! - published by Canolfan Bedwyr, Bangor University. This can be regarded as an authoritative source. It's mainly intended for people to look up Welsh/English English/Welsh versions of placenames in Wales, when they exist, but can also be used to find the standard Welsh spelling. Very useful. Go here and use the search box and you'll find they give the spelling 'Llannerch-y-medd'. I'm surprised at Cyngor Ynys Môn - they really should know better, especially with a bunch of placename specialists on their doorstep in Bangor - but then given the utter shambles the council's been in for years now perhaps it's not so surprising after all! Checked a few other resources. Llannerch-y-medd is the spelling used on the map Cymru published by Cyhoeddiadau Stad, which gives its authorities, including two important books (which I don't have, damn it!), Rhestr o Enwau Lleoedd (Univ. of Wales Press) and Yr Enwau Cymraeg ar Leoedd by Bruce Griffiths (ditto), as well as the consultative committee on Welsh placenames set up under the old Welsh Office. Apart from one or two names I think the map and its sources are very reliable (don't know if it's still in print - I've had my copy for years and it's getting a bit dog-eared). Atlas Môn (Cyngor Gwlad Môn, 1972) also gives Llannerch-y-medd: this is easily the best resource of its kind for the island, even if it was published nearly 40 years ago. Enaidmawr (talk) 17:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's OK, had put my response on here just so it wouldn't look like nothing was happening. Agreed move back to Llannerch-y-medd as most authorities agree this is correct spelling. Will need Administrator assistance to do. Skinsmoke (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done :) (Hope you don't mind me stepping in!) Jeni ^(talk) 21:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Jeni. Much appreciated. Enaidmawr (talk) 23:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not a problem. Many thanks. Skinsmoke (talk) 00:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]