Talk:Little Brother (Doctorow novel)

Science fiction?

It is a book by Cory Doctorow, yes, but in what way is it science fiction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.121.52.66 (talk) 15:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Erm... because they use science (well, computers)? I don't get it myself. 71.13.209.105 (talk) 20:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

For the record, the Library of Congress has assigned the following subject headings to the work:

       * Terrorism -- Fiction.
       * Computer hackers -- Fiction.
       * Civil rights -- Fiction.
       * Counterculture -- Fiction.
       * United States. -- Dept. of Homeland Security -- Fiction.
       * San Francisco (Calif.) -- Fiction.

-- Quartermaster (talk) 09:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Since when are books of the "near future" *not* considered science fiction? How far in the future does a story have to be set?Sherrold (talk) 02:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Does it matter? A novel with a modern setting could still be science fiction were it based on an alternate history. Steampunk novels set in Victorian Europe are considered science fiction, so the time period should never be important. I think it is getting harder these days since a lot of what once was sci-fi is now reality. Yet the main element still is speculation and guessing; extrapolating off what we know today and making something different. --Electrokinetica (talk) 08:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I would call it more of a techno-thriller (although a "light" or "soft" one) seeing as how at the time of it's publishing, the technologies in the book all existed (well... except the Xbox Universals, but the software exists) and the book takes place near enough in the future that it can be considered in contemporary times.75.169.244.215 (talk) 10:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Some of the technologies exist, and you made a point with XBox Universals, but I'm not sure we'll be seeing, say, WiFinders this Christmas season(please don't mind that, a quick Google search proved REAL WiFinders...)...I'm not quite sure on the genre, but my Mom thinks that it is "cyberpunk"...70.162.133.122 (talk) 04:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Doctorow describes the book as "my first young-adult SF novel" in an article in Locus (magazine). Seems to me that ought to be good enough. [1] Alexbook (talk) 16:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Referencing 1984...?

Does anyone feel that Marcus calling himself "w1n5t0n" is used as a homage to Winston Smith from 1984? Mr. Doctorow clearly loves 1984, the bibliography section at the end is the proof. I emailed him directly to ask this and if there are any other references. Mr. Doctorow did confirm that "m1k3y" came from an Australian fan at a sci-fi convention, but made no note otherwise. It's unconfirmed but likely. Anyone think this homage is worth a mention? --Electrokinetica (talk) 08:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It sounds like it's original research, so probably not. The article certainly wants expanding, but preferably with referenced content. --AlexChurchill (talk) 16:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article that makes the same point.[2] The article includes an interview with the author, but the assertion that "w1n5t0n" is Winston isn't explicitly sourced to the author. I'm thinking close, but no cigar, right? Alexbook (talk) 16:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe it's definitely worth mentioning in the article. 1984 is explicitly referenced in the author's bibliography at the end of the book. The title of the novel also clearly references Big Brother. What other reason would there be to have Marcus use that specific handle? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sraets (talk • contribs) 18:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed link to publishers weekly as its expired or behind a paywall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.230.245 (talk) 01:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

External Linking to PL?

I was thinking there should be an external link to the ParanoidLinux website, since the article mentions them...would that be a good idea? Cloudwind 70.162.133.122 (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

remove picture

Marcus being interrogated by DHS

I removed the picture because it was screwing up the formating.

XxSovietspacexx (talk) 16:16, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

More cultural references?

Ange was reading the book "Up Against the Wall, Motherf*ckers" at one point or another. Far more than what's mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.64.129 (talk) 22:06, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

--I believe it was mentioned twice in the book,and in the bibliography briefly, but isn't a huge part of the story. GeneralRobotwallah (talk) 02:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Error?

"Ms. Galvez - A social studies teacher at Cesar Chavez High School, she is seen as a dedicated teacher and an independent thinker. She seems to be the only teacher that Marcus respects at his school. She tends to agree with Marcus on topics of security and Marcus helps her with contacting her fiance, who's an overseas soldier, via internet."

I think it's her brother who is a soldier oversees. Can someone verify? --Charleenmerced ^Talk 15:13, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it's her brother. --Charleenmerced ^Talk 15:16, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Misspelling of Jolu's name

Jolu's complete name is Jose Luis, not Louis. Since this was a minor change, I took it upon myself to fix it, and thought I'd put out this little blurb for clarity. GeneralRobotwallah (talk) 01:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Pepper spray?

It was put under Ange's bio that she enjoyed pepper spray on her food. She puts capsaicin on her food, an ingredient of pepper spray.GeneralRobotwallah (talk) 03:19, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Masha Bio

The bio described Masha as Asian. I can't find it anywhere in the book, and it seems infinitely more important to discuss her martial arts skills. GeneralRobotwallah (talk) 03:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Possible References For Article

Doctorow, Cory. "Cory Doctorow’s Craphound.com News." Cory Doctorow’s Craphound.com News. Word Press. Web. 02 Mar. 2012. <http://craphound.com/>.

Wilson, Melissa. "Book Review: "Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow." 301 Moved Permanently. Web. 02 Mar. 2012. <http://firefox.org/news/articles/1448/1/Book-Review-quotLittle-Brotherquot-by-Cory-Doctorow/Page1.html>.

Hurwitt, Robert. "'Little Brother' Review: Big Brother's Spawn." Www.SFGate.com. Hearst, 28 Jan. 2012. Web. 04 Mar. 2012. <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/27/DDJS1MSQI2.DTL>.

Doyle, Genevieve, and Henry Johnston. "Doyle." Surveillance & Society Homepage. 2008. Web. 05 Mar. 2012. <http://surveillance-and-society.org/ojs/index.php/journal/article/view/little_brother/little_brother>.

Hourigan, Ben. "Publications." Space Ships and Sound Money. Web. 03 Mar. 2012. <http://www.ipa.org.au/publications/1814/space-ships-and-sound-money/pg/15>.

"Full Interview: Cory Doctorow on the War on General Computing | Spark." CBCnews. CBC/Radio Canada. Web. 02 Mar. 2012. <http://www.cbc.ca/spark/2012/01/full-interview-cory-doctorow-on-the-war-on-general-computing/>.

Hull, Elizabeth Anne. "The Challenge Remains: Doctorow's Little Brother Revisited." WLT: On Little Brother. 2010. Web. 03 Mar. 12. <http://www.ou.edu/worldlit/onlinemagazine/2010may/hull.html>.

Nellis, Mike. "Nellis." Surveillance & Society Homepage. 2008. Web. 05 Mar. 2012. <http://www.surveillance-and-society.org/ojs/index.php/journal/article/view/nellis2/nellis2>.

Doctorow, Cory. "Locus Online Features: Cory Doctorow: Writing in the Age of Distraction." Locus Online: The Website of The Magazine of the Science Fiction & Fantasy Field. 07 Jan. 09. Web. 05 Mar. 2012. <http://www.locusmag.com/Features/2009/01/cory-doctorow-writing-in-age-of.html>.

Durago, Jessica. "The Revolution Will Not Be Podcast: Doctorow, Heinlein and Pragmatics of Rebellion." Some Fantastic. June 2008. Web. <http://www.somefantastic.us/Issue_Archive/Issue_No_15.pdf>.

Dmbfan85 (talk) 00:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Ideas for Page

I have found several book reviews on Little Brother and I plan to explore some of the views expressed in them. A lot of this article looks really good an I think I will keep the format the same. The artwork present in this article looks awesome and I like the rare cover inset and the interrogation picture. I have not found anything, as of right now, that I will revise completely. There are a lot of really good points I might expand on to pull more of the genre out of the book. In addition, I will be adding a Genre section to this article. A lot of the book reviews that I've found praise Little Brother on the resisting authority that drives the book. I think I have a good start so far and I'm looking forward to making this article better through my revisions. Dmbfan85 (talk) 02:15, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Adding a genre section sounds like an excellent idea. I would also suggest deleting the "cross-cultural references" section, unless you can find a way to write it up into paragraphs. Long lists like these aren't particularly helpful and tend to proliferate across Wikipedia. Also, how might you reorder the sections? Wadewitz (talk) 18:01, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Feedback Currently, this article has some mostly trivial lists--all of the bookstores thanked in the chapters and an unsourced list of cultural references--see if you can explain why and how Doctorow chose to include these in his text and include that in a section about the themes or how this relates to other genres of literature. He's a pretty technologically savvy figure, so there are going to be a lot of interviews with him available online--I'm sure that he's promoted this book. Also, note that he helps to run BoingBoing, so you might find some good content on that site, but you want to avoid relying on it strongly, as it's a first-hand, self-published source. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:58, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review

One thing that I saw was that the comment that there was a real version of ParanoidLinux that was based on the version from the book should be cited.

Also, watch for jargon. ISP - Not everyone knows what this stands for even though it is linked, I think spelling out the full name with a link would probably be better.

I could be wrong on this and have asked for clarification but some of the character descriptions seem to have some opinions of the editor in them. There is some understood interpretation in the book but beyond that is opinion. Again, I'm on the fence with this and its a very fine line between the opinion of the narrator and the opinion of the reader/editor.

Best, Veganchic (talk) 03:37, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Suggestions for Improvement

Sources:

There is a lack of citing in the plot. Opinions are given about the characters in the character section, as they are not backed up by secondary sources. Example: Van being coined as the “ideas” person of the group. Where is this stated? Who claims this?

Sources are peer reviewed, but could use more references to sources of this kind. Most citations in the article are referencing the novel itself and linked to opinion.

Cultural Cross reference section has no secondary source citations.

Structure:

I feel like major themes section is misplaced and would work better towards the top of the article. Dedications section seems pointless and could be deleted.

Writing and Grammar:

Grammatically, there are only a few minor errors. Commas misplaced, chunky sentences, run-ons. I think the plot could use some sentence re-structuring, but the article isn’t too bad.

Good luck with the page! I'm sure it will turn out well! Grapefr00t (talk)

These are very good suggestions! There is a lot of material available on this book, so I look forward to seeing your additions to the article! Wadewitz (talk) 13:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

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