Talk:List of wars involving England

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Ninth Crusade, not Fourth

I replaced the row that had the Fourth Crusade with the data for the Ninth Crusade. Nostalgia of Iran 20:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nostalgia of Iran (talk • contribs)

Norman invasion of Ireland

Obviously I meant kingdom of England in my edit summary not kingdom of Ireland. The kingdom of England didn't invade Ireland in the Norman invasion, it was knights affiliated with it with the king's backing. Not the same thing. Henry II did come over with the largest army Ireland had ever seen at that time but that was more to do with reining in the Norman knights roving across the island for fear they'd establish their own rival kingdom rather than invading. Please provide academic WP:reliable and WP:verifiable sources to back up your claim. Mabuska ^(talk) 14:00, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Henry did declare the conquered territory to be Crown land when he landed. So does that no mean the Kingdom of England was involved? Iamdmonah (talk) 14:16, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here are two sources detailing Henry II's arrival and activities in Ireland:

https://books.google.ie/books/about/Lordship_in_Medieval_Ireland.html?id=Wh8TAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y page 165 This source states that Henry gave Royal troops to the Norman lords to assist in their conquest while he was there. English troops took part in the conquest of Ireland, suggesting the Kingdom of England's involvement.

https://books.google.ie/books/about/Henry_II.html?id=T_Ong1PZq_QC&redir_esc=y Page 138 This source states that Irish Kings and chiefs submitted directly to Henry, not to the various Norman lords. Submitting directly to the King of England suggests the Kingdom of England's involvement.

Other sources you can check if necessary include books by David Carpenter, Martin, Christopher Daniel and Seán Duffy, and works such as translations by UCC and others.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamdmonah (talk • contribs) 14:30, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Then by all means provide direct quotes from all those sources that you claim says the Kingdom of England invaded and was at war with Ireland in the Norman invasion of Ireland because none of the ones you provided actually do. Thus your edit is based simply on WP:Synthesis and WP:Original Research coming up with your own interpretation that isn't backed up by sources.Your sources don't prove your opinion at all and your edit is still contested thus per WP:BRD you should discuss and get WP:Consensus before enforcing it otherwise you are being disruptive and engaging in edit-warring.

So please provide an actual source that states the kingdom of England was at war with Ireland in the Norman invasion rather than using synthesis and original research. Mabuska ^(talk) 15:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing wrong with the sources. I have not breached the guidelines on WP:Synthesis or WP:Original Research. Can you explain how? I will provide the quotes from the other sources I have listed shortly. But please, explain the problem with these sources. Iamdmonah (talk) 15:30, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes there is something wrong with them... they don't back up your opinion. Here is an online Google Books source for you to read. It's called volume 2 of the seminal A New History of Ireland series, by Irish history heavyweights such as F.J. Byrne, Art Cosgrove and F.X. Martin. Go to page 43 and especially the middle of page 44. There you will see a good description of what the "invasion" really was by F. X. Martin. Mabuska ^(talk) 16:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also the first paragraph on page 45 about Henry II's arrival in Ireland and why. Indeed read the whole chapter. Mabuska ^(talk) 16:32, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but for some reason I can't access the link you've provided. But I think I get your point– England wasnt involved. Well the sources I provided above show that Henry's troops fought against the Irish– whether their role was directly fighting or as some sort of supportive role doesn't matter, as far as English Royal troops fought against the Irish alongside the Norman lords does that not suggest England took part in the invasion? Also, Henry provided siege towers and other resources for the invasion. Not to mention that those Irish Kings who submitted all submitted directly to Henry, not to Norman lords. Furthermore, Henry had overlordship over the conquered area. So yes, on second review I probably am guilty of WP:Synthesis, but regardless the evidence shows England was directly involved. But I will not get into another edit conflict– I accept your conclusion. On that note, I suggest you edit the page Norman Invasion of Ireland where the Kingdom of England is listed as a belligerent. And no, that page is not what I am basing my argument from. Iamdmonah (talk) 18:02, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for pointing out the issue at that article, which will need addressed.

The link works for me. How about this one? Trust me read that chapter and it'll enlighten you on most of your statements in your latest comment, which you think backs you up. For example why he came over (to rein in his feudal sub-ordinates), why he brought siege towers (the Normans already controlled the only places that they'd be useful against so they weren't for use against the Irish), why some Irish kings fell over themselves to submit to Henry, why Henry had overlordship (feudalism) etc. etc. Did you know he tried to stop Strongbow's expedition to Ireland? That Henry II struck a deal with Rory O'Connor where his feudal subjects in Ireland would not expand further into Irish lands (hardly the foundations for a conquest when he could have swept the island). As is obvious from history the Norman knights seeking glory ignored the deal.

If you had evidence that the kingdom of England was directly involved and was at war with the island then you should be easily able to find a source for it. You suggested I look up Martin earlier in this discussion and I have provided you a highly regarded and reliable source, which has a chapter on this subject area that he wrote, which disproves what you have provided so far for your reasoning, which is synthesis and OR.

As is, the discussion has ended as you have accepted my conclusion, but it's not my conclusion its the conclusion of sources. Mabuska ^(talk) 19:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of rebellion of the colonies or revolution

In the list of revolutions or civil wars, there's no war of a famous war that England had in America. That famous war is also not listed under 18th century. Diprestonus (talk) 04:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Kingdom of England ended its existence in 1707. What war could it manage to fight in the 1700s? Dimadick (talk) 10:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gascon War

Same thing as List of wars involving the Kingdom of France: What exactly is the justification for the Gascon War—whose 1303 Treaty of Paris was precisely a return to the status quo ante bellum—being declared a French victory instead of an English (strategic) loss or other?

User:Nederlandse Leeuw agreed over there with changing the 'outcome' and totals but with that user name it's always possible they're a Flemish partisan with an axe to grind against Philip IV & co. Is there a valid argument for what we had before? — LlywelynII 12:18, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]