Talk:List of municipalities in Michigan/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Cities and villages in multiple counties.

More than a few cities and villages extend into more than one county. Just as an example, the city boundaries of Lansing are primarily in Ingham, but extend into both Eaton and Clinton counties. East Lansing is in Ingham and Clinton counties. Milan is in Washtenaw and Monroe counties. Grosse Pointe Shores has territory in both Wayne and Macomb counties. Midland is in Midland and Bay counties...the list goes on. I guess I'll try to fill these in as I get the time, but folks should feel free to do this to if they know the counties each city are in. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:57, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

This has been resolved now. DanDG44 (talk) 20:43, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Split proposal

This WP:TOOLONG list should be split it into List of cities and villages in Michigan and List of townships in Michigan. The List of cities and villages could use most of the intro content here. Cities and villages are referred to collectively in Michigan's Constitution, and they are similar to municipalities as defined in other states. There are 533 cities and villages (30% of the long list, 50% of the people, 4% of the land area).

Charter townships should be included in the List of townships. They are twps which become incorporated; this can prevent them from being annexed by a city. Charter twps are also included as twps in the source https://michigantownships.org. There are 1240 townships (70% of the long list, 50% of the people, 96% of the land area). DanDG44 (talk) 21:45, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose I think it's best to have all local governments on one page, like most (if not all) other state pages. Yes it's long, but it's all data pulled from the census website. Splitting this list will mean it will never get updated because it will have to be done manually, and can't be pulled directly from the census website. This is especially important as there is a new census this year. I strongly oppose the split, but if it's decided then we should at least wait until the new census data is obtained. Mattximus (talk) 22:21, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't know the process by which the data entry is done, but none of the other states with townships have one big chart including every type of place. List of cities in North Dakota and List of townships in North Dakota is the closest to what I'm proposing because it's one of the few townships lists that includes any data. List of municipalities in Illinois and List of townships in Illinois by county currently include less data... The 9-column format is good and could probably be used in more geographic lists, but it's a bit much on a list of 1773 items.DanDG44 (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

For many of these lists, the data entry is done by me! I noticed that almost all of them they were never updated, or were incomplete, or contained errors so I wrote a program to pull from official US census website. This list was pulled from there. There was some issues with municipalities in multiple counties and disambiguation issues but otherwise it's far better than before, as you can compare here: [1]. I even shrunk the list by removing CDPs. What you are suggesting would require many many many hours of work, and then redone again manually in a few months. I'm not sure anybody is willing to do that. Mattximus (talk) 20:01, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Vermont is another example where towns and cities are listed separately. New York has lists of towns, cities, and villages. Maine has a list of towns and a list of cities. Seems to me that those should all be merged. Dylanvt (talk) 23:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose: I've actually brought this splitting proposal up a long time ago, but I realized a comprehensive (albeit extremely lengthy) article is necessary on par with other states. And, the list does serve a purpose. I've referred to it many times for its sortable table of information. Unfortunately, the article still needs some corrections, and it's near impossible to edit the list since it is so damn long and slow to load. I still vie for separate articles, such as List of cities in Michigan, List of villages in Michigan, and List of townships in Michigan, where narrower lists and more specific information about each can be further detailed. However, I do not support the dismantling of the current List of municipalities in Michigan article, because it is well organized and provides comprehensive information on state jurisdictions. —Notorious4life (talk) 23:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose This is a list. Lists can get long. It should stay in the format that every other state's list of cities, by and large, has. It's easy to order by alpha and any given figure. No point in making things harder than they are... Veryproicelandic (talk) 01:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Consistency is important. We have a major problem already with multiple articles covering more-or-less the same info about cities in a particular state, let's not add to it. FOARP (talk) 12:50, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@FOARP: If consistency is what we care about, then why do we have a list of towns in Vermont and a list of cities in Vermont? And a List of towns in Maine and a List of cities in Maine? And a List of towns in New York, a List of cities in New York, and a List of villages in New York (state)? Dylanvt (talk) 00:07, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Good observation, you found a few more that are inconsistent. We should work on cleaning those up too. Mattximus (talk) 11:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Also, is it worth fixing / updating all of these so soon before the 2020 census is published? We'll just have to do it again in a few months. Dylanvt (talk) 17:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

No, the 2000 data is already getting out of date, it's best to wait for the 2020 data and compare it to the 2010 data. Mattximus (talk) 11:35, 6 October 2020 (UTC)