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Chris Rock

Chris Rock? Although "Rock" sounds just like a valid porn star name, was there really a porn actor with this stage name, or is it a joke aimed at the famous comedian?

clean up

12-14 Feb 2005: I've cleaned up the links on this page. Most of the links went to people who are not porn stars, which is pretty useless. People coming to this page are not doing so to read about college football players, US congressmen, British shopping centres (Brent Cross) or Canadian electoral districts (Brandon West), or for that matter, the refined iron product, Steel, or the meterological phenomenon, Storm.

  • I have fixed the incorrect links by adding "(porn star)" to the name of the person linked from this page so that any article created would appear under the title, "Chris Rock (porn star)". And yes, there is a white gay porn star named Chris Rock.
  • I did not use "erotic actor", because that would presume that all of these people can act, which I don't think is the case.
  • I have also cross-linked where some of these performers have performed under more than one name, to avoid the situation where we create multiple articles about the same person. Thus, clicking on "Matt Ramsey" will take you directly to "Peter North (porn star)" when an article is created under that name. If you look at the coded text, it appears as [[Peter North (porn star)|Matt Ramsey]]

proposal

The article on Jamie Wingo was nominated for deletion, and barely escaped being wipd out. I expect that this is the first of a series of Wikipedia:Votes for Deletion that will hit articles linked from this page in the coming months. The articles may well lose the votes and be deleted.

Many of these articles are currently stubs that are unlikely to be developed. I am proposing to move the text from these stubs to a "Gay erotic actors" page, while leaving the better-developed articles as stand-alones. If someone wants to extend one of the stubs to a full-length article later, the text can be transferred back. Any comments? Should I go ahead and do this? Zeromacnoo

  • On further reflection, I can't really be bothered to do this. If, on the other hand, there is a vote-for-deletion attack on gay erotic actor stubs, I will go ahead and do it to protect the text from deletion. Zeromacnoo 15:33, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Name

If no one objects, I will move this to "List of gay porn stars" for the following reasons:

  • it is the common name, which Wikipedia encourages,
  • "erotic actors" is a euphemism, which Wikipedia discourages, and
  • it is POV to say that they are "actors".

The question of many porn stars being "gay for pay" only is addressed in the first paragraph which notes that this is a list of people who appear in "gay porn", not that they are gay stars. I'll make this change in the coming week or so. Zeromacnoo 21:55, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My next project will be to remove the redlinks from most of the names. Let's face: it is unlikely that articles will be written about very many of these people. If someone does want to write an articlle, they can easily edit this page to put the [[square brackets]] back in. What is happening most of the time is that a non-related article is being written about another person or thing, and an incorrect link is therefore being created from this page. Zeromacnoo 14:22, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It happened again twice: today, Butch Taylor became automatically linked to an article about a member of the Dave Matthews Band, who is not the same person as the porn star, and Kevin Williams was linked to a football player. Zeromacnoo 16:46, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the links for all names A-K except where an article exists or where the link has already been disambiguated. I will return to do the remainder within a day or two. Zeromacnoo 21:07, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Resources / Erotica Wikiproject?

This Link is a good database of gay pornstars. We can likely use the pictures as fair use as well.

Is there a wikiproject up to deal with erotic articles? I do not think Wikipedia is being censored currently, but it is maybe a good idea to have a centralilzed project page to combat censorship (esp. gay erotica censorship) in case such a thing happens, also perhaps to coordinate efforts. --ShaunMacPherson 01:27, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Shaun, Thanks for the link. I'll look into it when I have some time and see what I can collect to add here. thanks also for the Aaron Nichols article. A good start, although it would be useful to add at least the beginnigs of a videography as we have for a number of the other porn stars on the list.

Please don't wikify the whole list of names, even a little at a time. I just finished dewikifying it for the reasons listed above.

When you or me or someone else writes an article about one of these people, that is the time to add in the link. Otherwise, we are going to end up with a list full of deadlinks and false links. The problem is not as simple as checking for links to existing articles. The problem also extends to new articles that are written after you create the redlink. See the reference to Butch Taylor and Kevin Williams that appeared out of the blue one day long after I had started watching this page.

I've identified several of the cases that I have run into here already where a link from this list took the reader off in some completely unrelated direction. I really don't think that someone looking for information on Brandon West wants to know about the Manitoba riding of that name. And so on. I've been monitoring this page for a while to try to avoid these problems, but I really think it is best only to put in links to the correct articles, or to put in a clear disambiguation e.g., [[Brandon West (porn star)|Brandon West]]. But I don't see the point even in putting a whole bunch of disambiguated redlinks. Let's just leave it until there is an article.

Furthermore, creating a bunch of deadlinks is inconsistent with the Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(links) which says:

On the other hand, do not make too many links. An article may be considered overlinked if any of the following is true:
  • 10% of the words are contained in links
  • it has more links than lines
  • a link is repeated within the same screen (40 lines perhaps)
  • more than 10% of the links are to articles that don't exist.

Thanks. Zeromacnoo 14:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

VfD results

This article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. For details, please see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of gay porn stars. -- BD2412 talk 02:45, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Re-organization

Since we seem to be getting an ever-longer list of gay porn stars, would it be useful to reorganize this article into two sections:

  • Gay porn stars with articles
  • Gay porn stars without articles?

Zeromacnoo 18:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. There's not much use to a list that will always remain less than 50% "linked" to relevant and complete articles. Spheroide 10:59, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm just curious why we're alphabetizing by first name?--69.235.194.121 05:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Vandalized?

Are the names given here realy pornstars? I can't help but think that this could probably be or has the most potential to be the most vandalized article ever. With people just add random names of their friends. --Asfalterisk 11:59, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

  • There is a lot of potential for that. Feel free to google some of the names and delete where you feel it is appropriate. Of course, be sure to leave any names that have articles, unless the articles are clearly vandalism. Zeromacnoo 00:27, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikilinking all of the names

I really don't think it makes sense to wikilink all of the names on this list. It is very unlikely that articles will or even could be written about all of these people. Wikilinking indscriminately will take us back to where this list was several months ago: most of the links went to people who are not porn stars, which is pretty useless. People coming to this page are not doing so to read about college football players, US congressmen, British shopping centres (Brent Cross) or Canadian electoral districts (Brandon West), or for that matter, the refined iron product, Steel, or the meterological phenomenon, Storm. If you're going to write an article, by all means, make the link, but please don't link just because someone some day might decide to take an interest and write an article. If they do, it is likely that the first or second thing they'll do is come here and make the link themselves. Thanks. Zeromacnoo 02:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Re-nomination for VfD?

It is my belief that this page should be re-nominated for VfD, due to the fact that this article is highly open to abuse, and is hardly informative. I suspect that most of the names listed are simply schoolkids who have had someone play a practical joke on them. --Intimidatedtalk 04:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I keep my eye on this page to prevent abuse, as the article history will show. I have verified a statistically significant sample of the existing entries and found only a low level of "practical jokes". List articles are well-established in Wikipedia, and are a useful tool for editors doing work in a particular area and for readers who want to review articles on a particular subject. Zeromacnoo 13:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Minor Edits

He is in ONE scene - which is his audition. The fact that it has been included on a DVD does not make him a star. It barely makes the definition of actor. There are millions of actors that appear in many scenes in movies. This is not the Actors Guild Listing. 69.19.14.43 21:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • John Paulus is the former Green Beret who told the National Enquirer that he had sex with Clay Aiken. I read the synopsis of Michael Lucas' Auditions Vol. 8: Scandalous to be that John Paulus's part is limited to that of his audition—the remainder of the DVD is other performers having sex. I doubt one DVD would make him notable; however, his claim with regard to Clay Aiken and his having been a Green Beret probably do. Chidom 09:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Alphabetization

I'm just curious why we're alphabetizing by first name?--69.235.194.121 05:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I've copied the above question from the above topic of reorganization as it has never been responded to. It would seem to me that this list as all others should be alphabetized by last name, not first. Would someone respond with a reason for the present order? Thanks. Doc 18:29, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

  • I think it's this way because this is the way it has always been. I know that that is not a satisfactory answer, but at this point, realphabetizing the list would be a huge project, one for which I am sure there would be no volunteers. If you want to undertake the project, I doubt anyone will object. Zeromacnoo 00:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

On a related theme, to make matters even more confusing around here, the Category:Gay porn stars list is alphabetical by surname.... Is there a way to link the two so that updating one automatically updates the other? Is the category list auto-generated? Chidom 05:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Redlines

We have an excess of broken links on the page. I'm glad to say that this problem is not unique to this list—the other porn star lists have it, too. What might be happening is that users who don't know the markup language are imitating what they see for other entries. For example, Clueless Clod logs in and wants to add Cory Evans to the list. He opens the list in edit mode and sees "[[Colton Ford]]" listed, so mimics the style and types "[[Cory Evans]]", creating a link to nowhere. Of course, another alternative is that Clueless knows he's creating a link to nowhere, but has every intention of coming back and pounding out that article on Cory Evans as soon as he's done watching tonight's Golden Girls marathon. The obvious solution, as has been said elsewhere, is to create the article first and then add the link. I'd like to go through this list of names and delete any redline links. Same goes for links to other pages that don't yet exist—"List of popular gay porn videos" in the "See also" section, for example. There's so much of this - is this intended to identify articles that need to be written? If we decide to get rid of all the broken ones, could we post a boxed heading at the top of the page reminding folks to write the article first and then create the link? Chidom 07:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

  • You have my support on deleting the redlinks. Others, however, will point out that Wikipedia allows people to create redlinks to encourage others to create articles. In this case, however, I don't think it will ever happen because there are relatively few editors actively creating articles on gay porn stars. If no-one objectsin the next week or so, let's go ahead and do it. Zeromacnoo 05:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Oops. Was just re-reading this and caught the part about the next week or so. Obviously, I couldn't wait. I agree with you on there being relatively few authors for these out there. I encourage anyone who wants to write an article to do so and then link the performer's name to it after it's done. Theoretically, we should have articles on all of these guys. Chidom 09:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Page navigation

From what I've read, the current page navigation is light years ahead of where it started, but I'd like to propose some improvements. Namely, could we repeat the alphabet links at the bottom of the page as well? Additionally, could we add a "[Top]" link at the end of the listing for each letter to return to the alpha links at the top of the page? I'll be responsible for getting it done if you think it's a good idea. Chidom 07:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Information or advertising?

Some of the links in the "See also" section seem to be pointing to commercial sites rather than sites with good reference content. (Check out the Gay Porn Stars Guide link, for example.) Okay to delete things like this in the moment as long as I put a note here saying I did so and why? Or is that even necessary if I use the Edit summary? Chidom 07:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete away, my friend. I'd use the edit summary. Most of the edits here are by anonymous editors or people who sign up, make a few edits, then leave. Commerical sites are usually added by spammers, so we don't have to worry about treading on their toes. Zeromacnoo 05:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Sean Harris listing

Here we go again with what's "notable". I searched this guy on tlaVideo and came up with four DVDs - one a promotional compilation - all from Raging Studios and all made last year (2005). Is it too soon to count this guy out? That's impressive output for a single year from a major studio. He doesn't have a page, is only listed, if that matters. Chidom 20:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Non-existing article links deletions

(Will update this as edits get done)

There is a method to my madness. If the name of the performer is the same as someone else who has a page of their own, I just leave it alone—see Chris O'Connor (musician). If, however, the name of the performer is the same as that on a disambiguation page, I add their name to the list of possible definitions and link it back to this page—see Chris Murphy. In either case, I delete the link from here to any other article.—Chidom 02:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Done:

All done. I found a few links that said they were broken, but they were just typos. John Holmes, for instance is John Holmes (actor), not [[John Holmes (porn star)]].
Please help keep it cleaned up!—I know there are several of us who watch this for additions, etc.; not only should we be sure that appropriate people are being added, but that they're in the right place. Please also take out the comma between the person's name and the "a.k.a."—it totally fouls up alphabetization. Tanks!—Chidom talk  08:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I notice there's a link for some performers to their personal webpages:

I standardized the links to make it more obvious that they're external (used the website name as the link); my personal feeling would be that we not include these links, as these sites are generally promotional and commerce-related, not reference material.

Thoughts on removing the links? Chidom 20:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Fly-by editors

Is there any way that we can require anyone who wants to edit this list to register first? I don't care if they make up a name for themselves or whatever; having them go through the process of registration would discourage some of the vandals. I recognize Wikipedia's "anyone can edit" policy, but it seems registration isn't a great deal to ask before someone does! Is there a talk page about this somewhere?— Chidom 20:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You could get the page semi-protected, but I'm not sure it would qualify, since it's not rampant, constant vandalism. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 20:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Permission to use images

I'm moving the earlier entry that was at the top of the page down here to maintain a history. We've received formal licensing now; please see Successful requests for permission which details the receipt of a GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) for all images on the HisXpress.com site.

From earlier:

I'm placing copies of e-mails of interest to anyone wishing to use an image of a porn perfomer obtained from the HisXpress website:

e-mail I sent:

To: info@hisxpress.com Subject: Model photos

Hi -

I am working on an article in Wikipedia on Randy White and would like your permission to use the photo you have of him at http://www.hisxpress.com/media/randy_white_sm.jpg in the article. You may view the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_White_%28porn_star%29; the photo that is there will be replaced, as it is incorrectly identified.

Could you grant use of this image for this purpose? Would it also be possible to get a blanket approval for use of any of the images of models that are included at www.hisxpress.com in articles in Wikipedia? This would include the pictures you have in the models listing and possibly those in the upper corner of the model's filmography page.

We would always list attribution to New Millenium Video or other such entity as you direct.

I appreciate your assistance with this request. Please let me know if you need further information.

Thanks.

Charles N. Sublett

Received this response:

"HisXpress" <emails@hisxpress.2ss.net> Subject: Re: Model photos

Dear Charles,

Please feel free to use any model photos found on our pages-no credit needed.

Sincerely,

Arthur Workman Co-Owner New Millennium Video

—Chidom talk  09:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Filmography Order

Could we get consensus on how to list performers' filmographies? Some are in chronological order, others in alphabetical order. Lest you think this is trivial, similar information in an encyclopedia should be listed in a consistent manner. So, please add your vote (and comments, if you like) under the bullets below. You need only vote "Yes" for your choice; please don't vote "No" for the other choices. If you don't have a vote, but do have a comment, please enter it under this introductory paragraph, not under one of the options.

I personally prefer alphabetical order (and have changed some articles to reflect that). I think it's easier to find a particular film if the list is in alpha order.

I can understand a desire to have them chronologically ordered, for instance, wanting to find the most recent (and therefore most likely available) work. If you want them in chronological order, the decision also needs to be made about listing the most recent work or the oldest work at the top of the list. —Chidom talk  20:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

——————————

Alphabetical order:

——————————

Newest film at the top of a chronological list:

——————————

Oldest film at the top of a chronological list:

——————————

Limited geographic scope / worldwide view

I'm not sure why this tag was put on the page; there's nothing in the talk pages (including the archive) to explain it. Since several of these porn performers are from other countries (William Higgins, Jean Cadinot, and Kristen Bjorn all use non-U.S. models extensively, if not exclusively). If it comes down to it, I doubt that the United States is the only place where the films these guys have made are shown; maybe we could get documentation from Falcon or one of the other studios as to how much overseas commerce they do. For now, I'm taking off the tag until someone explains why it's there to start with.—Chidom talk  18:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protected

I have requested that this page be semi-protected (no edits without a user account or from accounts less than 4 days old); the rate of vandalism is such that things are being missed even with several editors watching the page.—Chidom talk  11:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Just for notice, I have semi-protected the page. Hopefully, it won't have to be too long. Yanksox 03:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

deletion of material

This is an on line encylopedia..and a very good one..we should b out of the dark ages now...stop the book burning ,even if it's on line writing people want destroyed...to tell u the truth i was very suprised that this site has a list of gay porn stars, but was led here from another site while searching for information. I have to say i found it very helpfull and informative...and as a gay person (who does not allways approve of some of the debauchery my so called peers get up to) i felt proud as a gay person that we were represented on this site. I see no propbem with the way Wikipedia has presented the information and the pictures. and there is no such thing as bad knoweledge..its all what we do with it and how we see it....any one who wants this removed must b right wing up tight christian...and as a believer in God i know that the allmighty will one day save us from the judgements,,verbal torture ,mental stress and hatred directed at us by some of the followers of his son....some day God and Jesus will protect us from the christians!

And their narrow views and hatred have no place in the collection of and sharing of information for further enlightenment....i am facinated by how many very strictly raised christian men are involved in the gay porn industry..but can understand why they r driven there and sometim=es while unable to fully embrace and accept their own sexuality. But in a way mabey this is gods way of protecting them from worse....many right wing gay children are driven to self mutliation,drugs or suicide by the strict and misguided forces of their religions....anyone who is offended doesnt have to read this or the information that is listed for deletion. As a student i often use this site but never dreamed of looking here for information on gay male porn stars....r they worse than the sacred whores or temple whores? this kind of thinking is part of what is causing all the mental/emotional/spirtual abuse these people give their own gay children and gay people in general..and it is the seat of violence against gay persons....one time christians tourtured and killed left handed people,redheads ,and gays.......well the redheads and lefties are safe now ..take this informative part of your site away and u continue to bent to the misguided thinking that allows a segment of the population that God created and LOVES to be abused...and are a part of the group who would hang teenagers in public for being queer...is this any better than the terorists who bomb america in the name of God?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.54.133 (talk • contribs) 07:54, 21 August 2006

Pierre-Yves Darget

(The following are comments from the talk pages for User talk:Chidom and User talk:Rhyddfrydol on whether or not this person should be on the list; they are being moved here so that others may comment.)

I'm removing his name from the List of gay porn stars as well, he doesn't qualify as a "star".—Chidom talk  23:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Being listed in the IMDB does not justify an article in Wikipedia; he has exactly one film from 1984 (Harem); one film does not a star make. It also used to be absurdly easy to be listed in the IMDB; I have an entry as well ( ! ). The List of gay porn stars is maintained primarily to keep track of articles about stars that have been written and articles that need to be written. Since it's unlikely that Mr. Darget will ever have an article, his name doesn't belong on the list. If you still want to list him, please respond on my talk page with reasons why. Thanks.—Chidom talk  22:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I have listed him because he has an imdb entry. The rationale from reading the discussion on the delete page is that actors with imdb entries should be included on the list. Incidentally I would like to know what happened to him after that one film, but thats another line. I'm sure there are other one-film wonders in the list too. Why are you singling out Mr Darget for exclusion from Wikipedia? Rhyddfrydol 22:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not singling out Mr. Darget. If there are other articles for actors who only had one film, it is highly unlikely that there should be. The film, or something associated with it, would have to be of great importance to justify an article in an encyclopedia. As I said before, inclusion in IMBD isn't reason enough to be included here. This is my entry: IMDB link; also, see my user page for additonal info. I certainly don't deserve an article in Wikipedia. Furthermore, if other articles do exist on the basis of one film listed in the IMDB, that doesn't mean this listing should be here. (Somewhere that I can't locate at the moment, there's an excellent comment about "just because they did it" doesn't mean it's right.) I'm copying all these comments the article's |talk]] page so others can express an opinion; further comments should be made there, please.—Chidom talk  23:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Clean up suggestions

I suggest the following. Cromulent Kwyjibo 22:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

  1. Sort by last name, even if pseudonym.
  2. Identify which ones have received homage in form of Desperate Housewives character being named after them.
The discussion about sort order has happened before; it was decided that it would be too much work to change, and that other lists are arranged in such a manner.
What Desperate Housewives has to do with gay porn stars is beyond me; the qualifications for including names on the list is under discussion. I'm not sure what the cleanup tag is about; what is the problem with the list?—Chidom talk  06:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't Marc Cherry name male characters on the show after gay porn stars of the 90s? Donnabella 22:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
That may be, but I don't think the information belongs on the list; it could be included in the article on the porn star.—Chidom talk  18:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

For each name, if there's a reliable source which indicates that the person is a "gay porn star", add <ref>'s accordingly. If you can't find a source, simply remove the name. This may take a while. --CharlotteWebb 15:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

No policy requires this; it would make the list of references longer than the article. The entire list is sourced; not each invidual name. If the references are checked, the name will be found. I've removed the cleanup tag.—Chidom talk  01:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted the external links to websites that are unverifiable as to accuracy: ManNet; Yahoo / Google / MSN groups / Gay Porn Corner. The commerical sites that are listed offer items for sale and are thus updated on a regular basis and offering a product—not just a line of text—about the person on the list.—Chidom talk  17:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Matthew Hall / Chase Alters

This entry has been removed. The sources for this assertion are questionable at best; this is a living, professional figure skater. If he is in fact Chase Alters, I would question if he belongs on the list at all. He has an article in Wikipedia. I'm checking the sources for that article.—Chidom talk  18:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism reverts

This won't fit in the edit summary unless I do it in stages; that's more work that I'm not willing to do (this was enough work as it was).

The following names were deleted as having no records:

  • André Chiasson
  • Denis Mazerolle
  • Greg Vergeylen
  • Jean-Marc Leblanc
  • Michael Winters a.k.a. Tom Bombadildo
  • Patrick T. Dugan
  • Pecora, AJ

I also deleted Rocco Rodriguez, I found him listed in a non-porn documentary

—Chidom talk  18:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

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