Talk:List of presidents of the United States by net worth

A malicious editor replaced "Donand Trump" with <<Yoda>> in the Trump paragraph. I have corrected that back to Donald Trump, but it may happen again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:5180:6DC0:99D4:7832:78B8:F449 (talk) 02:59, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Table expansion?

This table could be improved with more information, for example, columns for occupation/source of wealth, wealth in then-dollars and the year (was it when they entered office? left office? died?). --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Half a billion for Washington? It would be interesting to know the methodology used to come by that conclusion. I'm guessing they (CSM) are taking the present day Virginian farm land value (8000 usd an acre?) and applying it retrospectively to his 60,000 acres. Which is cute but would be no where near the liquidation value of his land at the time of his death adjusted for inflation. All of which is saying that figure is a bit of a nonsense. Twospoonfuls (ειπέ) 17:31, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Could be true. He was rich. 108.3.135.124 (talk) 20:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Adding on to this, I believe the numbers cited here are likely inaccurate in several places: the only numbers I've looked into are Coolidge's, as he is the president I am currently reading into. Amity Shlaes' book, horribly biased as it is almost to the point of unreadability, has his J.P. Morgan account balance listed as 137,099.38$ on January 2, 1931, two years prior to his death. Per in2013dollars.com, this is well over a million dollars in 2010, yet he is listed as being worth less than a million. In addition to this money, she mentioned his daily columns are bringing in substantially more than 3,000$ weekly and that he had a habit of storing his money away in up to twenty different banks in case of a market recession, leading me to believe the numbers here could be DRASTICALLY incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.109.62.160 (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Kennedy

Kennedy's range should be explained in a footnote. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 22:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Kennedy should not have a range. He should be in as $125 mill. Even if the Kennedy's were worth 1 billion dollars that does not mean than JFK was worth that. The Time infograph said that he lived off a fund of 10 mill. He should really be put in as that. Where did Time get the 1 Billion number from?Claymorde (talk) 14 October 2014.

Kennedy's range is improper. Kennedy's family net worth is not his own. Someone should revert this.Ernio48 (talk) 02:17, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Putting Kennedy at $1 billion because of money he MIGHT have inherited seems pretty silly. 76.168.4.212 (talk) 05:32, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

I noticed this to and just placed him as $10 million based off the fund he had access to. I left the note that his family's estate was worth a billion but he never inhered it. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 03:18, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

But that's not necessarily what that quotation said. He didn't inherit from his father. Undisputed, as he died six years before his father did. So was the quote talking about Joe's estate? Or Jack's? If the quote had been cited properly, context could have been sought. What's absolutely clear is the following statement from the article, "The figures in the table below are all derived from 24/7 Wall St.'s 2016 valuation of each president's peak net worth." Except that that was not true of Kennedy. 24/7 Wall St. very clearly gave his peak net worth as $1.1 billion in 2016 dollars.

How much was Jack Kennedy worth? I don't know. But some things to consider. 1. They count spouses in the net worth calculation. 2. Jackie's family was wealthy. 3. Jackie's father was dead and may have left her money. 4. All numbers should be in 2016 dollars. Beyond all that, numbers need to be cited. There is no source given for the $2 billion or $10 million numbers. They do not come from the 24/7 article, at least not the current nor archived versions. Perhaps they appear in some older version. If so, it needs to be linked directly.

At minimum, if it could be established that the $10 million was correct in 1963, it should be updated to 2016 dollars [1] (about $80 million). Further, it should be established that Jackie did not bring an additional $1 billion in 2016 dollars to the marital assets. Until such a time as reliable sources are cited, I restored the 1100 number while leaving the note mostly as previously written. I added a direct quote from the cited article [2] and added several notes where a citation or more information was needed. Note that even if reliable numbers were cited, this would still require an explanatory note. Because this would be the only entry in the list that does not come from the 24/7 article. Mdfst13 (talk) 04:12, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Inflation Adjusted dollars

These numbers are all in 2010 dollars, which means that they are inflation-adjusted. The results will depend on the value you use for inflation adjustment.

It would be valuable if the table also showed their actual net worth, in unadjusted dollars. Geoffrey.landis (talk) 22:18, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Washington's $500 million would be $11 billion in today's inflation value. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:9460:5A40:D5AB:3CA0:E7A6:9D14 (talk) 20:20, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Errors

The caption below Barack Obama states he is the 21st wealthiest president but directly below him in the spread sheet is Polk with 2 million more. He is either 22nd or 23rd.

Kennedy's wealth is listed as 125 - 1,000 million yet he is put on top. I think it is kind of ridiculous to have such a huge range in numbers

--65.182.252.177 (talk) 20:28, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

All early Presidents rich?

"but by no means were all early Presidents rich" --> the table claims exactly the opposite + no source for this statement.

Jefferson

Didn't Jefferson die in debt? How can his net worth be this high? I don't think this article is accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.61.222.251 (talk) 02:20, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

~~The table appears to be Peak Net Worth, so it only looks for their maximum wealth anytime after (I assume) they became president. Jefferson may have been wealthy at one point, then fell into debt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.129.196.116 (talk) 13:29, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Table sorting doesn't work

Hello, I'm not a wikipedia editor so I don't know how to fix this, but I wanted to report that the net worth column doesn't sort correctly. 94.36.128.46 (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

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Most U.S. presidents before 1845 were extremely wealthy, including Andrew Jackson, who was born into poverty,[1] and George Washington, the richest of the period, but by no means were all early presidents rich.

What? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.163.233.11 (talk) 18:11, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:United States Presidents and control of Congress which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:16, 23 November 2016 (UTC) A presidents income after holding office is irrevelant to this discussion. The info should only state net worth When Elected. After leaving office presidents become private citizens again. They're income after office is a completely different issue.==Is it not considered relevant the comparison of the wealth before the Presidency and after?== I think, assuming that most modern Presidents have a lot of income after their presidency ends, it would be very relevant to see if it is possible to measure the effect of the Presidency in their wealth. Regards --Basquetteur (talk) 15:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

There is no reference for Trumps net worth

Donald Trumps net worth is completely unknown, with only estimates available.

Trump only declared his assets, and never declared his debt, which could possibly exceed his assets.

I'm not making any claims, but a reliable reference is required for making claims on trumps net worth, and this article currently fails at that.

Steve348 (talk) 15:10, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

agree this should be deleted. no source for his wealth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.125.15.118 (talk) 15:01, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, why are Trump's tax returns discussed? Tax returns would reveal annual income, but not net wealth -- i.e., in theory, Trump could own a warehouse full of gold bricks but still have zero income for a given year. Income and wealth are different (albeit related) topics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.176.151.21 (talk) 17:09, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Any and all references to this published writing have no validation or merit to constitute this article as fact. Investigation of each reference falls within opinion in nature, with no supporting documents or origin of claim. This information is therefore unproven and potentially misleading or fabricated outside of the realms factual based public information. The article does not yet meet the guidelines of publish worthy subject matter and should be withheld from the official wikipedia record until valid references are located. Aquawicket (talk) 07:19, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Vice Presidents of the United States which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:02, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

reference 12 is a dead link

The url given, (http://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/11/10/trump-becomes-the-richest-president-the-net-worth-of-the-american-presidents/) redirects to (https://247wallst.com/).

This is true. Why are we using this source as a reference? It’s time for this whole page to be updated Dynen (talk) 14:39, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

@Dynen: What exactly is true? The link mentioned above was replaced a while ago, and it does not redirect for me. Also, it's archived. effeietsanders 15:14, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

@effeietsanders Please disregard my reply. I was having a mere network issue when trying to use the link. My apologies! Dynen (talk) 15:18, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used n this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• President Lyndon Johnson signs the Medicare Bill (which created both Medicare and Medicaid) while former President Harry S Truman, right, observes.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Estimated net worth of Trump

What should be the number displayed? The current number (3.1B) is actually based on 247wallst.com and not Forbes, as the footnote claims. If you check the latest Forbes page about Trump's wealth, two numbers seem relevant: their 2015 estimate (4.5B) and their 2020 most recent estimate (2.1B). If the update would be based on losses/profits (his wealth changed and he lost over 50% of his wealth in the past 5 years), then the 2015 number would be most relevant to mention, because the article claims to discuss peak wealth. However, if we assume it to be a more accurate estimate of roughly the same fortune, then the most recent number is more relevant - his wealth didn't really change, Forbes just has better insights into it. Given the 50% drop, I am leaning towards the more recent number under that argument, and we should instead include the 2.1B number. Any thoughts? effeietsanders 22:52, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Given that there was no objection so far, I adjusted the number to the most current estimate (2.1B) by Forbes. effeietsanders 05:48, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Peak net worth not current and if anything it should be switched to the 4.5 number but I think there was a consensus reached to use the 3.1 number. 69.116.73.107 (talk) 01:53, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

As I noted above: my understanding of that update is that he didn't loose a billion dollars in that year, but rather that the estimate was updated based on more accurate information. That means this still is the peak net worth - it's just a better estimate of it. Note that this number was put up before the crisis happened, so it's not updated for that (if it goes down because of a real estate crisis, you would be right: his actual net worth would have gone down, and then the older number should be used). Do you have any source suggesting that his net worth went down by 30%? effeietsanders 04:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I have no idea why you think that when forbes still has the peak graph on the bottom of the page here's source for drop and I looked at previos edits it seemed people mistakenly thout that the list shows current net worth not peak so I corrected it to the $4.5 that forbes shows as his peak 69.116.73.107 (talk) 14:18, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Let's bear in mind that the amount of debt Trump is in is not his actual net worth. He is probably worth a lot of money but we don't know how much.73.170.33.155 (talk) 16:26, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Let's also bear in mind that Wikipedia should not be estimating anybody's met worth, and should certainly not be deciding which estimates by others are valid and which are not. Wikipedia should be reporting what others have estimated, giving due weight to whatever estimates are considered for airing, IAW WP's WP:NPOV policy. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:17, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

References

Inflation correction

Was this list adjusted for inflation dating back to the 1700's? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:9460:5A40:D5AB:3CA0:E7A6:9D14 (talk) 20:13, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this should have been adjusted for inflation. effeietsanders 07:04, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Truman

New research from files released from the Truman library shows that Harry Truman drastically undervalued his wealth; he technically embezzled his White House expenses account (which was supposed to be used for official entertaining), instead, he stuffed it away in safety deposit boxes. In his draft will of 1953, Truman listed assets of $650,000 (1953 dollars), which would be $6.105 million in today's dollars. He was paid $670,000 for his memoirs in 1955, which would be worth almost $6.8 million in today's money, much of which he also stuffed away. His peak net worth should be closer to $12 million. 98.10.165.90 (talk) 15:50, 6 August 2021 (UTC) Here is the reference

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-truman-show.html?utm_source=pocket_mylist

24/7 Wall Street is RS?

The article says the table is based on data from a website called 24/7 Wall Street. That appears to be a garden variety stock tip gossip site with no particularly qualified editors for this sort of economic calculation -- inflation adjustment and valuation. Basically, the whole article looks like it should be blanked.

Thoughts? SPECIFICO talk 19:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I say nuke the table, unless better sources can be found. The 24/7 Wall Street content does seem to have been republished on a couple RS (e.g. USA Today and VOA, based on my quick Googling), but I think it fails here based on WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. Claims like that table makes probably should ultimately come from analyses done by qualified economic historians, and even then I doubt it's reasonable to peg a single, definitive current-dollar value on the net worth of many presidents (e.g. Washington, Jefferson), given the massive changes in the economy. - GretLomborg (talk) 06:22, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Digging through the history, it looks like the oldest versions (e.g [3]) were based off of a graphic [4] from a 2012 Time Magazine article [5] by Richard Norton Smith, who appears to be a non-academic historian/author. That's probably better than 24/7 Wall Street article, even though it doesn't include the latest presidents (IIRC, weekly news-magazines used to have the best combinations of currency/fact checking of any news source). - GretLomborg (talk) 20:16, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Any objection to removing this non-RS table and seeing what's left to work with according to WP verification and other policies? SPECIFICO talk 23:18, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Seeing no objection, I am inclined to remove the table within a few days. Fair warning. Any current objection to this table based on no valid source? SPECIFICO talk 12:42, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Theodore Roosevelt

Why is Theodore Roosevelt's net worth missing from the list? He inherited money from his father, and he owned Sagamore Hill, a ranch in North Dakota and a small cabin in rural Virginia-surely he had notable wealth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:47:4380:D550:7D2A:B678:5BE5:62B1 (talk) 02:01, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Childhood

A distinctiom should be made to which presidents were born into wealth and which had to work their way through life. 2601:346:C201:60C0:61E0:C9D:9BB4:CAA0 (talk) 02:23, 13 July 2022 (UTC)