Talk:Lebanese Australians

citations required

is bob katter as a famous lebanese australian a joke? I've removed it. If he is by some chance actually lebanese, please cite.--Phatmattbaker 10:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Around half of all Lebanese Australians live in Sydney. A good encyclpedia would source this fact. something like, "According to the 2001 ABS Census, Around half of all Lebanese Australians live in Sydney." MPS 05:24, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the rewrites ...

...which went on in my absence, or at least when I was not paying active attention. The article reads smoothly and informatively. Are Lebanese Australians really the ninth largest group? That sounds interesting...thanks for beefing up the history too. --EuropracBHIT 07:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC).

Yes, Lebanese Australians are the ninth largest group according to Australian Bureau of Statistics census data available here: http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/525a1b9402141235ca25682000146abc/8e6fd54fc12ceb0eca256e910078296a!OpenDocument. Details of the Lebanon-born are available at the Community Information Summaries at DIMIA at www.immi.gov.au/statistics. (Someone else will have to put the references on the article page as I haven't worked out how yet.) I have tried to create a fairly standard article shape for all the Australian ethnic groups so that they can be easily cross referenced. Doire, 12:32, 28 December (UTC).

Cronulla Riots?

Should something be put in about the Cronulla riots? Alot of the anger there seemed to be directed towards lebanese australians, so i think it would be relevent. Ill leave the decision up to you guys. -kurtas

Yes, it's relevant to the article, but don't forget to keep it NPOV. CG 11:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Pack Rapists

Why is Bilal Skaf and rapists listed as notible Lebanese Australians? Criminals dont represent social groups. In an article about nationalities criminals are never listed as notible figures. This is very offensive and i wish it to be removed. The cronulla riots have the same right to be mentioned in the article "Australia" as the article "Lebanese Australians". Lebanese Australians did not start the cronulla riots, Anglo Saxon Australians did. CG 12:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

>>I completely disagree with the assessment that "Anglo Saxon Australians started the riot" that is incorrect, erroneous, and racialist. The lebanese started the riots.

The list isn't about representing a social group, it's listing members of the group who are notable, for whatever reason. The List of Australians contains a whole section of criminals. If the riots are mentioned in this article, then it would be in such a way that wouldn't imply that Lebanese Australians started the riots, but to explain how they were examples of racial attacks directed at Lebanese Australians. JPD (talk) 10:14, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

i think its a bad idea to include people like skaf. very unprofessional. Tarins01 13:20, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

ITs not unprofessional to put the skaf in there,the pack rape crime he commited with his underage freinds changed many things in australia, have a look at todays papers [1], the pack rapes were a shocking brutal crime that people wont forget in a long time. to put it into a perspective the gang rapes have reportly changed judical process in australia and that anyone who has read the papers in the last 4 years would no who he is. i think that these people would be in the notable australia section if he werent lebanese. it would be un enclyopedic to ignore skaf and clean up this article by removing all references to antyhing slightly umseemly. in the australian section there a is a whole list of crimminals as part the notables.get a grip this isnt a play ground.Your own prejudices, that is that he is a crap person and makes your social group look bad dont mean anything cause thats just the way it is. i suggest you have a coke and a smile and shut up.

another thing, the riots were triggered by racial tension and a voilent incident where a life guard was bashed by lebanese. the anglos reacted by organsing a protest that became a riot where they based anyone who wasnt white as white bread,and the next night lebanese recpricated with force and weapons which means is bloody irrelevant because the riots have a f**king page. i dont think people should be poitning the finger. the rioters acted badly, and were gutless to bash anything not the same colour as them so can you point the finger from your own arm chair. please dont drag wiki down with this crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.54.133 (talk) 21:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

>>"Unprofessional"? what are you talking about?

But Lebanese 'Australians' DID start the riots. (Deleted irrelevant and inflammatory comments)

Canada

this shouldnt be merged. "Leb" is uniquely aussie.

• What? "Leb" is also commonly used pejoratively in Canada and I have no doubt other nations. "Leb" should not redirect here. QuinnHK 05:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Increase in Lebanese Gangs?

"In recent years Lebanese community has come under increasing friction with the mainstream Australian community resulting in ethnic tensions. Most of these tensions has been due to the increase in Lebanese gang related activities. However, Hazem El Masri who plays with the Canterbury Bulldogs is seen as a good role model for Lebanese and Muslim Australians."

This paragraph is extremely illiterate. There is no evidence what so ever to indicate that "lebanese" gang related activities have increased, yet alone to suggest that it has created an increased tension with a "mainstream" Australian community. I am assuming Mainstream is Anglo Saxon Australians. These are the "real" Australians to the author. It seems the author's comments are only opinion which have been created by the media in Australia and its negative portrayal of the Lebanese Australian community.

"created by the media in Australia and its negative portrayal of the Lebanese Australian community" this is biased POV attack against the Australian media. I hereby denounce this attack.

Hazem El Masri is only one of the many "good" (absolutely terrible language) role models for Lebanese Australians.

This must be removed immediatly. Has Wikipedia just become a message board? Having Skaf the rapist as a notable member of the community, and now this is seriously undermining integrity of wikipedia. CG 12:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC

>>I disagree, you cannot pick and choose your notable Lebanese Australians. Any Lebanese Australian that has masses of news articles and media coverage is therefore notable.

Administrator - Please remove references to the Skaf rapists - they are not notable Lebanese Australians - they are criminals - As an Australian of Lebanese background, I am insulted that their names be listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.166.110.125 (talk • contribs)

I would be insulted if the names of the muslim Lebanese pack rape attacker hate criminals were removed.

You can probably remove it yourself without admin assistance. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Alphachimp ^talk 06:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I would not recommend removing on account of their criminal status. Every ethnic group has good and bad. They are notable, and they are Lebanese Australians. This page is not just for the good. Ansell 07:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I fully support the inclusion of the notable gang rape attacker hate criminals and terror suspects that the Lebanese community has contributed to Australia in the list of notable lebanese australians.

For the moment I'll put up with the above - however a big error is the reference to Kurds being a Lebanese group. This is very wrong. There is a small population of Kurds, just like there is a small Jewish community. Furthermore, Armenians living in Lebanon are Catholics or Orthodox, they are not a Lebanese group.

Kurds and Armenians born and raised in Lebanon are Lebanese in the civic sense whether you accept it or not. They can thus be included in Lebanese Australian if they have migrated to Australia. They certainly see themselves as Lebanese. Implying that only Arabs / "Phoenicians" can be Lebanese is both narrow minded and incorrect. User: Doire 14:25, July 21 2006

See also list

links to articles about criminal incidents don't belong in an article about an ethnic group of people, so I've removed them. To include such links would be to associate the whole ethnic roup (in this case many thousands of people) with the event. This is unencyclopedic. Furthermore, to include the link to 'list of Australian criminals' is just absurd. I'm also not sure that the link to the 'Sydney race riots' belongs here. If there is an argument that these links do belong here, then I think we should also link 'sydney race riots' and 'list of Australian criminals' to Anglo-Celtic Australian, Asian Australian, Greek Australian and others. These are absurd edits and should be removed. -- Adz|talk 12:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Skaf

Stop putting gang rapists who no one has ever heard of in notable lebanese australians. This is pure racism, they are not notable and this is inaccurate information. The dual citizen exodus is opinion. Wikipedia is not a message board so dont add your opinion in an encyclopedia.

Like it or not he is a well known Lebenese-Australian. To not have him would not be NPOV. The Australian page has a whole sections on criminals. Raya 85 15:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

--141.76.45.35 11:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposing a compromise

• The links to the gang rapists continue to be edited in and out. It's getting rather annoying. I think it's time to propose a compromise. I think part of the issue is that the representation of 'rapists' on the list is disproportionate. (I personally don't think that individuals associated in a criminal incident are notable within the context of a whole community but others obviously do). The list contains four or five individuals who are associated with the same incident. The wikilinks for those mentioned all link back to the same article. The people themselves are not notable other than for the incident, so creating a separate article for them all isn't the way to go. I therefore propose that the links for the 'rapists' be removed and replaced with just one link - which will be the article they all lead to at the moment anyway. -- Adz|talk 11:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Im not opposed to having having the other rapists linked to the Skaf Rapes together or removed from the article. however i believe that Skaf himself should remain in the list. Raya 85 09:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I am opposed to your changes and have reverted them. It is established that these lebanese criminals are notable and many people have agreed over the last few months. There is no case to remove the names from the list, despite the fact that they link to the same article. The list's purpose is not dependent on there even being an active link in fact some of the names don't even have an article and are in red, yet they are on the list, so if you remove names of individuals who get a mention in wikipedia and not the red names that are not even notable enough to have an article you are applying a double standard that is simply biased to your political agenda to water down the reality that many many lebanese australians are criminals, and it does not matter that they are based around one incident as you say, in fact i would argue that dozens of rape attacks on many women are not one incident as you say. Please refrain from fiddling with the list further.

--141.76.45.35 11:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with above user and I too am opposed to the changes, adz has an agenda here, if the list contains, a former footballer who isnt even notable enough to have his own article and a beauty pageant contestant who likewise has no article than it certainly can contain lebanese criminals who are mentioned in wikipedia articles about a series of horrific crimes which shocked the nation. Stop fiddling, I agree, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 0000001 (talk • contribs)

A few points. Firstly, 141.76.45.35's assertion that 'many people have agreed over the last few months' is not supported by the fact that the names have been repeatedly reverted over that time, and not just by me but by other editors.

You're entitled to revert the changes, but in order to end the constant reverting that has gone on, I raised the discussion here and left it up for a week before making changes. I did this in good faith in the hope of reaching consensus. The only person to comment was Raya 85. I'll leave 141....35's edits alone for now in the hope that we're able to reach consensus, but I'm going to revert 0000001's edits. 0000001 has used as justification for keeping the criminal's names the fact that other names were listed (Houssami and Hanna) and has then gone and deleted them. Both names generate numerous hits on Google and I think they warrant further discussion.

My issue was that listing all the people associated with one event (or ‘activity’ for want of a better term) presents an unbalanced and disproportionate list. They aren't notable for anything other than the event/activity, and in my view, should be listed once. To draw an analogy with a completely different scenario, if the entire Tasmanian cricket team was listed in the List of prominent Tasmanians, it would heavily skew the list and it would be disproportionate. Most of the cricketers are only notable for playing cricket for Tasmania and it would be sufficient to mention them in that article, not on the list. Somebody reading the list might conclude that Tasmanians are heavily into playing cricket. Instead, the cricketers who are listed are those who are particularly notable.

If I have an agenda as you say, then it is simply to produce a list that is proportionate. I’m not disputing that there are criminals who are of Lebanese origin, I just see the prevalence of convicted rapists in the list as disproportionate. If a disproportionate list is justified because “many many Lebanese Australians are criminals” as you claim, then you need to reference statistics to make the case.

I’ll leave 141….35’s edits alone for now, but in future I think it would help if people took part in discussions here before reverting what has already been proposed and discussed. -- Adz|talk 16:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

This reverting of the list is getting out of hand. As it is a list of NOTABLE Lebanese-Australians i propose, as a compromise, that any person who is not notable enough to have their own article in Wikipedia is not notable enough to be included in the list. This will remove a lot of the Gang Rapists whilst still leaving the more well known in the list. It will also remove a few of the more obscure Lebanese-Australians whom there is not PRESENTLY an article on. what do you guys think? Raya 85 03:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I can go along with that for the time being, however I'm concerned that articles would suddenly be created for the other two rapists who don't have articles at the moment and that they'll be added back to the list. I think that would be against the spirit of the compromise. - The issue is, as I see it, that several people associated with the same event (or series of events) are disproportionately represented as a result of there being several of them. Also, I'm not sure that Mohammed Ghanem is particularly notable. I think the article could be merged into the main article about the gang rapes and removed from the list as well. -- Adz|talk 01:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I take back what I said above. Apparently there are articles for Mahmoud Sanoussi, Tayyab Sheikh, H (gang rapist), and other gang rapists. These people aren't notable for anything other than the Sydney gang rapes, for which there is already an article, and which they could all be merged into. To my mind, this means that they're not notable and shouldn't be on the list. Compared to 'lists of notable people' in other articles about ethnic groups in Australia, this list reads like a 'who's who in Goulburn goal' and isn't representative of the Lebanese Australian population. It comes close to vilification of an entire community.

With respect to some of the other names listed, listing people who have been accused of a crime but who have not yet been convicted seems to be in breach of Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. I think these should also be taken down. -- Adz|talk 03:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To be notable, they can't just be any lebanese australian criminal. This what is happening here, yes, criminals are on the notable australian page as well, but they are the biggest and most notable in Australias history, mass murderers, not some baggage handler suspected of terroism. This is just an insult and racism. It's a sick joke and people are defending it. i agree with the above user, the skaf brothers shouls stay, the baggage handler should just be moved to an article on aussie terrorism ive never even heard of the him, baggage handlers have been accused of worse.I can accept the skaf brothers or anyone who was directly assocaited with skaf i dont like the proportion of crimals in the list but the gang rapes were a really big deal anyone involved has a case for being linked, they would be notable.

They have been noted - ergo they are notable. They have been noted on TV, radio and print media - and now the wikipedia. Look we have Chopper Read, the Carlton crew, Roger the Dadger and Neddy Smith - aussie crims but bot lebs and they are in the wikipedia why should not skaf also be in the wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.172.145 (talk) 13:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Hilarious

I find it funny that atleast one in three notable lebanese Australians are criminals

As long as the Australian article does not have every single australian that has commited a crime, this article should not contain unheard of rapists and terroists. Just because they have been on the media doesnt make them notable, if so, every Australian criminal who has been mentioned in the media should be placed in the Notable Australian list. --

This is just a racist joke

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.106.45.223 (talk • contribs)

At least the wog crims aren't nonces. Even the Sydney gang rapists only did chicks of roughly reproductive age. Jeez just looks at the Crime in Austrlia page to see how bad some of the skip srims are. Nonces, paedos gay sex killers etc etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.172.145 (talk) 13:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Ali Osman

Stop placing this name back into the notable list. He is not a notable Lebanese Australian. People charged with affray and assault are not notable people, he is unheard of.

I wouldnt say hes unheard of. a quick google search brings up >500 articles. which is more then alot of the other "notables" Raya 85 22:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Just because a person is mentioned in the media does not make them notable. The "other notables", may not have as much hits on google, but google hits shows systematically, how much they are mentioned in the media, it does not indicate how notable they are. There are many other factors than just a simple google search, which is quite shallow. Anyone to do with the cronulla riot was heavily mentioned in the media during that period. I find raya 85 extremely bias, due to the fact that any other non Lebanese Australians involved in the cronulla riots dont have articles on wikipeida and are not mentioned in the Notable Australian Section. It would be ridiculous to have a person who assaulted an arab in the cronulla riot to be mentioned in the Notable Australian section, so why the double standard? Including Ali Osman, a teenager charged with affray, in the Notable list is racism.

unsigned 17:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Firstly as to claims i have some sort of anti lebanese bias, i was the one that suggested the compromise that had the majority of the other lebanese criminals removed from the list. Osman is notable as previously stated he has > 500 hits on google and his own page on wikipedia. If this is not enough to be classed as notable then maybe you would like to suggest some other criteria that we can use across the board to determine if a person is worthy of inclusion in this list. Raya 85 11:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

no·ta·ble (nō'tə-bəl) adj. Worthy of note or notice; remarkable: notable beauty; sled dogs that are notable for their stamina. Characterized by excellence or distinction; eminent: formed a commission of notable citizens. See synonyms at noted. n. A person of distinction or great reputation. See synonyms at celebrity. often Notable One of a council of prominent persons in pre-Revolutionary France called into assembly to deliberate at times of emergency.

Ali Osman is therefore not a notable Lebanese Australian. Please remove ASAP.

unsigned 17:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

no·ta·ble (nō'tə-bəl) adj. Worthy of note or notice; remarkable: notable beauty; sled dogs that are notable for their stamina. Characterized by excellence or distinction; eminent: formed a commission of notable citizens. See synonyms at noted. n. A person of distinction or great reputation. See synonyms at celebrity. often Notable One of a council of prominent persons in pre-Revolutionary France called into assembly to deliberate at times of emergency.

Osman could very easily fall into this category. Raya 85 02:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

No Australian probably has ever heard of Ali Osman. Someone charged with such a petty charge, affray and disorder, and mentioned on the media for a limited period of time, cannot even be compared to notable criminals on the australian list.

If you believe Rapists and lifeguard bashers are people of excellence, then that is your own personal opinion and it should not determine this list.

you are being a wanker, get your hand off it and remove this ali osman. he is not notable. i dont understand how he got his own article, cant he be linked from the riots article? his reputation is more relevant in as a link in that article this is alot liek the paris hilton article , people want to get in their high horses about her, but i dont think that its relevant to the enclyopedia.you are too pov now. thank you for opening up the dicussion tho.124.149.54.133 21:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Tamara Jaber

I'm also removing this person from the list - a member of a manufactured and now defunct pop group, who has never even released and Album...

THIS ARTICLE HAS BECOME A JOKE

It is unprofessional, vandalised by racists, and now has been locked.

It is obvious the problem is the notable list. There is only one broad category, Notable Lebanese Australians, this accounts for the significant members of the community, which was its original intention, rather than publicised criminals due to racial events.

It would make sense to seperate this list into sub categories, and that way criminals are not classed as "notable".

The articles Greek Australian, Italian Australian, do not list any criminals in the "people" section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cedar 88 (talk • contribs) .

You are incorrect. The List of Italian Australians links to at least three criminals. Ansell 07:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

While having too many notable criminals gives the wrong impression, if the majority of LAustralians with wiki articles have some sort of blemish, that's not the fault of wiki. All you need to do is balance the list with articcles with LAus acheivers.Bakaman _Bakatalk 04:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

== Jaques Nasser - Former CEO Ford Motor Company should be added to the list ==

==

Headline text

Bold text ==

Famous Lebanese Australians not included in list

'- Robbie Farrah: NRL player for West Tigers - George Lazenby:Actor - Jamese Bond- On Her Majesties Service - Reuben F Scarf: Founder of Reuben F Scarf mens fashion stores - Eddie Obeid: NSW Member of Parliament - George Joseph - Former Lord Mayor of the City of Adelaide - Eden Gaha - Sydney-born and bred TV personality - Jaques Nasser - Former President of Ford

Defamatory comments included in this page.

In the section "Notable Lebanese Australians" within the article " Lebanese Australians" , there are many gang rapists noted who are not notable. By listing every gang rapist, the article suggests that a majority of Lebanese Australians are criminals as a large percentage of criminals are in the list. On the same note, why not list every good Lebanese person who has been on the news. Whilst, if you search for Chinese Australians- there are no criminals listed in their Notable persons list. This is clearly defamatory, and I may take action once I seek advise from my attorney.

Also the below need to be included to the list:

- Robbie Farrah: NRL player for West Tigers - George Lazenby:Actor - Jamese Bond- On Her Majesties Service - Reuben F Scarf: Founder of Reuben F Scarf mens fashion stores - Eddie Obeid: NSW Member of Parliament - George Joseph - Former Lord Mayor of the City of Adelaide - Eden Gaha - Sydney-born and bred TV personality - Jaques Nasser - Former President of Ford

Get real Mick, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, are you gonna track down all of these people and take them to Court? I think you're living in a fantasy world if you think you're gonna sue all of them for defamation.

Anyway, the "notable" list is exhaustive enough. There's no need to list every single participant in the Sydney gang rapes, just a single link to the relevant article will do. I also object to the "redlinks" such as Barbara Perry, John Symonds, etc. The fact that these individuals do not even have an article for themselves on wikipedia signifies that they are non-notable. Jim Saleam should be removed - there is no (concrete) evidence to prove he is of Lebanese extraction, as well as Tamara Jaber, a singer from a manufactured pop-group who has never even released an album.

--User:Andrew777 , 31 October 2006 (UTC)

It is not a fact that every notable person has a wikipedia article. If you read who these red links are, they are clearly notable people. The first women Leb Australian politician , and the CEO of one of the largest finance organisations in Australia. This is in contrast to the list of criminals on this list, just because they have committed a crime which has been mentioned on the media, it does not make them a notable person. If it did the lists of criminals on other pages would be endless. It is because of their race, their notablitiy is exaggerated.

they were not just "mentioned" in the media they were front page news for multiple days. Raya 85 07:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

--User:Cedar 88 , 31 October 2006 (UTC)

THIS PAGE IS A JOKE - RACIST AND BIASED The criminals are not notable Lebanese Australians. Can I expect everytime an Australian of Lebanese decent commits a crime his/her name is listed. this is pathetic, it is a blatant attempt to potray the Lebanese community as a pack of criminals. If the list is to stay then every other race should include a list of 'not so notable' criminals.

Every other list has gangsters and drug kings also. And as for your claims of bias, I noted your vandalism edit to the Ehud Olmert page. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Every other list does NOT contain names of criminals in the same context as the Lebanese Australian page. It's as if wiki writers are trying to include as many criminal names in the list as possible. Go to Greek Australians - any names there? No. I am sure there are a number Greek Australians who have raped women. Lebanese Australians are not proud of the scum names of rapists that are listed as notable people. If wiki is fair, then take the names out or start sorting out the lists of other races. With regards to the Ehud Olmert vandalism, yes it was done in the heat of the moment when Israel decided to disproportionately destroy Lebanon. I was mad,upset etc. For that I do not apologise labelling him a butcher, but I do agree the name should not have been changed.

I too believe that criminals should be removed from the 'notable' list. Here is a link to dictionary.com's definition of notable. [2], but in short: 1. worthy of note or notice; noteworthy: a notable success; a notable theory. 2. prominent, important, or distinguished: many notable artists. 3. Archaic. capable, thrifty, and industrious.

Criminals do not meet any of these definitions. If you insist on listing criminals here, put them under a heading of 'infamous' (famous for the wrong reasons) or equivalent.

However, if you do insist on listing criminals YOU MUST LIST CRIMINALS IN ALL OF AUSTRALIAS ETHNIC GROUPS, INCLUDING US SKIPS! Thats only fair and unbiased. But come on, if they are infamous enough to be listed they should already have their own wiki page. And as stated above, criminals do not represent a community, other wise the aussie/anglo page would be endless with our 'infamous' criminals.--Theinnerexits 15:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

As an example i would be horrified if anyone listed those Australian pedophile pricks in Indonesia or Thailand as notable Anglo-Aussies and justifiably I would be outraged! So are we all clear, good. Now stop this bullshit and play like nice boys and girls, start acting like proper Aussies. ALL OF US!--Theinnerexits 15:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

"Proper Aussies"? I'm not Australian. "Australian" is someone with Australian citizenship (i.e., a civic and legal term), not an inherent behavioural characteristic or ethnicity. Be careful with presumptions. I've noticed (much to my annoyance) in these debates that "Australian" is slung around as a synonym for "white" — and I was the one who templated this article in the first place. 193.61.177.96 17:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

i suggest you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussie Raya 85 09:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you re-read my statement above. I wrote "Australian", not "Aussie". Agenda-driven contributors to Wikipedia pages relating to Lebanese Australians have constantly added either racist statements or insinuations, not least the almost imperceptible slight that "Australian" — not Aussie — is synonymous with "white". What is more, the level of debate on the matter has been little more than back-and-forth sloganeering. It's an embarrassment to Australia, Australians (of any ethnic background) and Wikipedia. 193.61.177.92 17:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

"Aussie" is just a national nick name, it isn't an ethnicity.--Steven X 08:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic Australians

I think this article, along with any other ## Australian (eg Greek, or something) article should be merged into a big Ethnic Australians Article. Also of note is that seing as you can not be both a Lebanese and an Australian, they should be catergorized as Australian's of Lebanese Descent or, as the case may be, Lebanese people living in Australia.

Something else to mention is the Cronulla Riots, or the 'Race' Riots as they were dubbed, those are pertinent to this article because alot of racial animosity was directed towards the Lebanese Community, and people of middle eastern appearance, in general.

There should certainly not be an Ethnic Australian section. After all, all Australians are ethnic Australians of some kind - that includes the English, Scottish, Welsh, Dutch, Irish, Aboriginal, and German-Australians ... Eligius (talk) 03:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Added External Links Section + Expanded See also Section

Hey (new to this)

Added an External links section to Australian Arabic/Lebanese cultural links. Also, expanded the 'see also' section to include 'Arab diaspora,'Christianity in Australia' and 'Relgion in Australia'. I'll get around to writing a longer article. Lastly looking to obtain permission from the Immigration Museum Australia for use of Lebanese Aussie photos from early in the 20th Century, you can see the pictures at this site: http://immigration.museum.vic.gov.au/origins/gallery.aspx?id=37&img=142

Ghazawy 15:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Does not state any sources. And contain bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saidsuit (talk • contribs) 06:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

in the return migrnat section in the main artlce could someon please mention that all the aussies int lebanon had to be evacuated cause of the outbreak of war between lebanon and isral and ausseis were suck in the middle. cdoesnt anyone remember this? the whole crimal thing is taking away from the article.please stop bikering and contribute the the content. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.54.133 (talk) 21:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

THIS PAGE IS RACIST - CLEAN UP OR DELETE ALL TOGETHER

2005 riots

Why aren't the riots against Lebanese Australians included in the article? Those were quite significant events against the Lebanese. ForestAngel (talk) 00:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Those were arguably also significant events by the Lebanese community in the week of lawlessness to follow the riot. I'm also curious as to why enclavism isn't addressed here. I have a great interest in social cohesion (or the lack thereof, due to the nature of society), and the middle eastern migrant culture is of particular interest to me as they're the most noted demographic to lack an ability to adapt to Australian society (albeit many asian immigrants have similar social issues, however tend to be less noticable due to the fact most asian community crime is against members of their own community).

I'd hazard to guess that it could also be noted that many middle eastern cultures that come across identify themselves as being 'lebo' for lack of a more identifiable demographic, and much allusion and avoidance is given as to actual origin point (ie: iraqi, iranian, syrian, et cetera, for some reason they avoid their actual origin point, I'm not sure why.) however that guess is personal research entirely. 122.107.65.2 (talk) 21:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Criminals

I have reinserted the list of criminals, but I think its inclusion should be debated. Is there any reason why we don't have a similar category for other ethnic groups? Criminals exist in all ethnic groups y'know. Kransky (talk) 11:59, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Other pages do include criminals where applicable. It can just be put back into pure alpahebetical order if needed. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Criminal - Rapist section

The rapist links, and to a lesser degree the criminal section, are completely irrelevant to the article. An encyclopedia (isn't Wikipedia supposed to be one?) should be an accurate and unbiased resource of relevant facts about a topic. I fail to see how 'outing' a number of convicted rapists is relevant to this topic. If the people who keep adding the links to the criminal section feel that listing rapists is useful to the general community, then they should list every single rapist in Australia, rather than just focus on those of Lebanese background.

As a compromise, rather than list each rapist, why not include a link to the actual incident/s and subsequent court case. As it stands, the inclusion of each rapist's name appears to be racially-motivated, and this does the Wikipedia community a great disservice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fairdes (talk • contribs) 04:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Agree, although it is more a case of undue weight than inaccuracy. Kransky (talk) 07:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the links to the list of rapists for the reasons stated above. I will continue to do delete this list. I have no problem with someone creating a separate link that details the court case relating to the incidents with the list of rapists. As it stands at the moment, the link within this article is racially-motivated and suggests that all Australians of Lebanese heritage are rapists and/or criminals. --Fairdes (talk) 10:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I have escalated to WP:AWNB#Fooian Australian criminals - notable Fooian Australians? as I think it is a question of general policy. I believe WP:ONEEVENT applies and articles on some of these people are accordingly unwarranted - an article on the even may be appropriate.--Matilda ^talk 22:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

The incident is notable and should be included - with sensitivity. There is a Sydney gang rapes article where those people can be listed. A link to this article should suffice, along with a short, impartial explanation. Kransky (talk) 12:44, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

• Some of the articles on the individuals involved are being discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohammed Sanoussi --Matilda ^talk 22:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

• I have added back in Bilal Skaf into the notable people section per the discussion at WP:AWNB. I have adde significantly to the community history section including references to the gang rapes and the Cronulla riots. I believe my additions comply with WP:NPOV and WP:V policies but happy to discuss.--Matilda ^talk 01:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Layout of page

Looking at the article's history, versions grouping individuals by claim to notability was more readable than the current layout. Andjam (talk) 13:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

• Grouping of individuals is original research and had a section in it called criminals which was definitely POV, hence the change to strictly alpha + a table to support verifiability of connection with Lebanon and Australia and allowing for reason for notability--Matilda ^talk 21:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
  • At risk of invoking WP:OTHERSTUFF, if grouping individuals together by their claim to notability is original research and POV, wouldn't List of convicted Australian criminals be an illegitimate way of grouping individuals? Andjam (talk) 09:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
    • I don't think so. To be on that list you must be convicted. The topic headings are generic names for the crimes involved, so the inclusion of Darcy Dugan as a bank robber is hardly controversial and although the crime might not be described as that exactly in his sentence it isn't a long shot. Classification on that list can be easily challenged per the facts. Some of the headings and application of people before in this article were a bit strange - for example we had Nicholas Shehadie - Lord Mayor of Sydney (1973-1975) listed under entrepreneurs rather than politicians. He was also a footballer but I see nothing in the stub that makes him an entrepeneur. Not sure why he was knighted though so maybe the stub needs expansion and that would provide the explanation. Easiest though to say he was notable and list him for that in the middle column of the table. Can expand beyond Lord mayor id somebody decides too but don't have to move him around from footballer to politician to husband of governor to entrepreneur ... --Matilda ^talk 21:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Tammin Sursok

I can find no reliable independent source that confirms Tammin Sursok has a Lebanese background. I suggest she be removed from the list. Regards, WWGB (talk) 03:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)  removed --Matilda ^talk 03:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Reuben F. Scarf

I'm surprised not to have found this very notable gent in the list. His 'aquarised' suits were a household word in Sydney from the 1950s to the '80s. He was also a great philanthropist and sponsor of the local Recovery movement for alkies and crims. There's plenty on him at NLA Trove, only I could not find verification that he was Lebanese. (It was commonly said that was.) Bjenks (talk) 17:38, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

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