Talk:Lance Armstrong/Archive 11

Archive 5

←

Archive 9

Archive 10

Archive 11

Semi-protected edit request

In the Early life section, please add that he attended Plano East Senior High. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/from-the-archives/2020/05/28/from-celebrated-cyclist-to-disgraced-athlete-lance-armstrongs-career-began-in-north-texas/ 2600:100C:A215:E059:8907:5C07:5DFD:5613 (talk) 17:14, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done A09 (talk) 20:03, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

voided results

I was wondering if there is a better way of showing Lance's voided results as the way they have been posted with a line through the text is not very readable. Any thoughts? Firestar47 (talk) 16:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2023

International Cycling Union is incorrectly abbreviated as UCI instead of ICU Onehellothere (talk) 19:48, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: see Union Cycliste Internationale Cannolis (talk) 20:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

name change

the article doesn't say when or why he changed his name from Gunderson to Armstrong. 24.206.82.52 (talk) 12:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2023

Please include “mellow Johnny” as one of lance’s nicknames. It is a reference the Malliot jaune—the yellow jersey worn by the leader of the Tour de France. He obviously garnered this nickname during the height of his fame in the tour. He even named his Austin based bike shop “mellow Johnny’s”. 2603:7080:6DF0:9660:4500:FD80:1991:E93E (talk) 01:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia content must be supported by reliable sources. Do you any for those claims? HiLo48 (talk)

Lead.

The Drug part, vitally important and relevant to results, performance etc, and it is reduced to the last sentence of the lead? It should be first e.g. Lance Armstrong (DOB etc) is a convicted drug cheat and former... (on your bike etc), this places the relevance correctly as ALL of his results, performances and titles are void.

• Love 121.98.30.202 (talk) 05:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Thinking on this I thought this much more appropriate and as a lead should, defines his notability.

Lance Edward Armstrong (né Gunderson; born September 18, 1971) is an American self-confessed drug cheat who was a professional road racing cyclist. He is one of the most famous drug cheats in all of sport, particularly as he was at the top of his chosen field, winning the Tour de France a record seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005 and then stripped of these titles. The investigation into doping allegations, called the Lance Armstrong doping case, found he used performance-enhancing drugs over his career. He is banned for life from all sanctioned bicycling events.

His notability, Today, is his cheating, not his biking as it was in the early 2,000's, the cheating is integral and more notable the his tainted achievements.

Thoughts121.98.30.202 (talk) 05:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Update 3 121.98.30.202 (talk) 02:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 16:09, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

X start Lance Edward Armstrong (né Gunderson; born September 18, 1971) is an American former professional road racing cyclist. He achieved international fame for winning the Tour de France a record seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005, but was stripped of his titles after an investigation into doping allegations, called the Lance Armstrong doping case, found he used performance-enhancing drugs over his career. He is currently banned for life from all sanctioned bicycling events. Z end

Y start Lance Edward Armstrong (né Gunderson; born September 18, 1971) is an American self-confessed drug cheat who was a professional road racing cyclist. He is one of the most famous drug cheats in all of sport, particularly as he was at the top of his chosen field, winning the Tour de France a record seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005 and then stripped of these titles. The investigation into doping allegations, called the Lance Armstrong doping case, found he used performance-enhancing drugs over his career. He is banned for life from all sanctioned bicycling events.. Y end Nothing controversial, all other refs are in the article as per convention. 121.98.30.202 (talk) 09:50, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Way too biased. It is, without a doubt, notable that Armstrong used drugs, but this has the lead statement almost attacking him. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 13:07, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Stating facts is not an attack on him, nor is it biased. HiLo48 (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

My concern is not the facts themselves, but the way you state them. Calling somebody a "self-confessed drug cheat" in the first 7 words carries a lot of weight. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 19:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi All, I refer to "without a doubt, notable that Armstrong used drugs" above. Exactly, you ask 5 people that have heard of the subject, 3 or 4 will say drugs first, 1 will say ex-biker, who used drugs. This is not an attack.121.98.30.202 (talk) 05:14, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: We do not publish what 4 out of 5 people on the street would say, we follow Wikipedia's long-standing policy for writing about living people and write in an impartial tone. Jamedeus (talk) 00:26, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree wiki should not publish hearsay, even if it is a mob that are saying it. However, this is not hearsay in any way. 1. He himself said it, 2. He is one of the four out of five. 3. It was litigated. 4. He was found guilty and 5. Censured for the same. and it should rightly diminish all of his tainted achievements and should therefore either take the lead or have much more prominence than currently or else the article is biased.121.98.30.202 (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Nobody is calling your proposed changes hearsay, this is a strawman. Everyone agrees that he cheated, which is why it is covered extensively including in the first paragraph. We disagree with ignoring WP:NPOV and WP:BLP by putting things like "self-confessed drug cheat" before everything else. Please respond to this directly if you're going to keep reopening the request.

This is just how Wikipedia is written. We don't mention Nancy Kerrigan in the first line of Tonya Harding, or Watergate in the first line of Richard Nixon. Armstrong isn't being given special treatment here. Jamedeus (talk) 23:58, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Jamedeus for Nancy's article her attack is the second para, which seems right for notability. Nixon was a politician and President before watergate. Tonya, 3rd para (kind of a second para tho) and again Tonya completed her honours before her husband (she was done for conspiracy) organised the hit, so all of these are somewhat arms length. LA admitted it, the ruling said he used drugs for all of his career. Apples and oranges. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.98.30.202 (talk) 11:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

No, not apples and oranges. You stated that Nixon was a President before watergate, but Armstrong was a cyclist before the doping scandal. You once again tried to strawman what we have been saying: the facts are fine, the way you state it isn't. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 13:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

He was a doping cyclist his entire career according to the panels rulings, probable started in college, so granny smiths vs mandarins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.98.30.202 (talk) 10:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Shadow311 (talk) 15:10, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Why was he allowed to keep his illicit earnings?

I believe the article would be improved if it included an explanation of how it came to be that Armstrong has been allowed to keep his illicitly gained earnings, leaving him obscenely wealthy, thanks to his cheating.

Can you provide any historical precedent for a sport's governing body to claw back prize money?Tethros (talk) 17:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2024

A typo in the section on doping allegations in the subsection called LA Confidential, third paragraph, second sentence. It says Armstrong said Armstrong would have known if he had saddle sores because she would have treated them. I think the line is supposed to read that O'Reilly would have known of Armstrong had saddle sores. 108.24.97.62 (talk) 12:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I've made the change based on the source given. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 13:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)