Talk:Khrustalnyi
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
[edit]The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:07, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 15 September 2023
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 16:15, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Krasnyi Luch → Khrustalnyi – It is the WP:COMMONNAME in English-language sources now, I would say. Compare these two searches on Google News for Khrustalnyi and for Krasnyi Luch that filter out results from before the name change. The ones that use Krasnyi Luch would seem to be about the same as the ones that use Khrustalnyi, but this is actually not the case. Many of them are informal blog sites like Daily Kos, or are talking about the city in a pre-decommunization context anyway, so I don't think they should be counted. When it comes to modern sources post-2016, they mostly refer to the city by its official name when talking about it in a modern context - so we should as well. HappyWith (talk) 16:40, 15 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Edward-Woodrow • talk 14:21, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- Rename. There are other spellings,[1][2] but taking them into account the proposal remains sound. —Michael Z. 17:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- If we don’t accept that there is a single COMMONNAME evident in reliable sources, then according to WP:UAPLACE we use the official name romanized according to WP:UKR. For this subject, that would be Khrustalnyi. —Michael Z. 18:34, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- Strong oppose, there is no COMMONNNAME in English (the number of hits is too low if garbage is substracted) and for localities which have no COMMONNAME and which were occupied by Russia pre-2022 the current consensus is to use the name used in the territory they are (and the population), i.e. Krasnyi Luch in this case. Once it has been retaken by Ukrain I will happily move it to Khrustalnyi--Ymblanter (talk) 07:26, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- I don’t see such a consensus in WP:UAPLACE. Where is it recorded?
- Renaming articles whenever their subjects change hands in this land war is not practiced and seems questionable. There are many, many counter-examples, from Luhansk to Bakhmut. —Michael Z. 14:13, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Mzajac Tbh, all these discussions about moving the titles of occupied settlements post-decommunization seem to be going over the same arguments over and over again. I wonder if it would be a good idea to start an RFC at WP:UAPLACE and get some actual consensus? I think there could be a good argument to be made that English-language outlets now prefer to use the official Ukrainian government names for all these places as a gesture of solidarity with Ukraine, the same way they switched usage from the previously dominant Odessa to Odesa, etc. HappyWith (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
- I’m for that.
- (I don’t think it’s a gesture, but the normal decolonization of language that’s been happening for decades. Using foreign names imposed on a nation is offensive. The West is realizing that it’s neglected to apply decent standards with reference to Ukraine. Obligatory link.[3]) —Michael Z. 18:55, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Mzajac Tbh, all these discussions about moving the titles of occupied settlements post-decommunization seem to be going over the same arguments over and over again. I wonder if it would be a good idea to start an RFC at WP:UAPLACE and get some actual consensus? I think there could be a good argument to be made that English-language outlets now prefer to use the official Ukrainian government names for all these places as a gesture of solidarity with Ukraine, the same way they switched usage from the previously dominant Odessa to Odesa, etc. HappyWith (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
- Support move per nom. Also, per WP:TITLECON, the name for the city's admin. division is currently Khrustalnyi, so that name would be more consistent. Dan the Animator 23:32, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
- Support move per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UAPLACE, because it is the official name romanized according to WP:UKR. --Kpratter (talk) 08:46, 9 October 2023 (UTC)