Talk:Ketoacidosis

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 September 2019 and 27 October 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pattkait.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Ketosis -> Ketoacidosis -> Undernutrion/Starvation

The entry discusses the link between diabetes or alcohol and Ketoacidosis, but only softly refers to starvation. Is it possible or probable to experience Ketoacidosis where insulin function is normal, but glucose or carbohydrate ingestion is extremely low? If not, why not? How does the manifestation of extreme Ketosis differ from Ketoacidosis if this circumstance doesn't lead to Ketoacidosis?

The real problem is that this article fails to address the role of ketoacidosis in the fasted state. Ketoacidosis occurs in a variety of situations that have nothing to do with diabetes or alcohol.

Is it extreme Ketosis or Ketoacidosis that sometimes occurs in children (especially females) and usually resolves by puberty? The already benign attributation to Ketosis with Ketoacidosis may further confuse, when this article is seperated from diabetic Ketoacidosis.

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I don't think they should be merged into one article because the etiologies of diabeteic and other ketoacidoses are vastly different.--dp 17:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Who maintains this page? Is this the same ketoacidosis as patients with Hyperemesis Gravidarum suffer? If so, a cyberlink would be logical.

Pathophysiology

I think the Pathophysiology section is misleading and needs a rewrite. For one it is exceedingly terse. But more significantly the disease process is really a combination of hyperglycemia with high levels of ketones. If the glucose levels are normal then there is no ketoacidosis. I believe this needs to be explained explicitly (i.e. this is what differentiates it from ketosis).

Comments?

--Mcorazao (talk) 04:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I must say I agree it doesn't read very well, and appears to make at least one odd claim - that hyperglycaemia itself results in acidosis, as though glucose acted as an acid at blood pH. My understanding is that ketoacidosis is just what it says in the name: acidosis due to high level of ketones; DKA is ketoacidosis + hyperglycaemia, a medical emergency, and should probably have its own article. non-diabetic ketoacidosis means no relevant hyperglycaemia: the example given in the article would probably present with hypoglycaemia, as glucose generation is impaired.

So, I think you've got it wrong: hyperglycaemia distinguishes diabetic ketoacidosis from non-diabetic ketoacidosis. High ketone levels in the absence of acidosis would usually occur as a side effect of starvation or specifically Atkins-style "low carb" diets.

RandomP (talk) 12:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Ketone breath

The article implies that the ketone breath odor occurs only in ketoacidosis, not ketosis. Is this true? If it is false, then the article contributes to confusion between ketoacidosis and ketosis. --Una Smith (talk) 22:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

The proximate cause?

The article attributes diabetic ketoacidosis to "a perceived need for respiratory substrate." This reads either like severe jargon or possibly vandalism. It doesn't seem appropriate in the lead paragraph. First, why is respiration involved? Since this doesn't seem obvious, some explanation would be helpful. Second, wtf is a substrate in this context? I'm for scientific language that can be understood by most college graduates, or even by high school graduates. There's really nothing requiring specialized knowledge in the basics of diabetes, including ketoacidosis. David Spector (talk) 00:11, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

The quoted material is specific and accurate. 'Respiratory substrate' is a substance that fuels cellular respiration. Cellular respiration is often confused with physiological respiration (breathing). I think this depth of description is helpful, as the technical language in question is necessary for a full and accurate understanding of the topic. If it is too advanced for some readers, they can skip past and continue reading, as it is not necessary for a rudimentary understanding of the topic. As with most hard science topics on wikipedia that have been fleshed out, there is material that some, if not many readers will not understand. That is fine. Wikipedia strives to provide answers to all levels of questions. If you prefer only rudimentary explanations, try the simple english wikipedia. To claim "There's really nothing requiring specialized knowledge in the basics of diabetes, including ketoacidosis" is deceptive. What is a 'basic' knowledge of the topic? A simple google search could have clarified your initial confusion about respiratory substrates. However, there is a wealth of specialized knowledge required to understand almost all topics related to the human body. The more you study medicine, the more is becomes clear that the vast majority of systems in the body are interrelated, often in ways that can only be understood with intense study. Inevitably, topics will not be completely explained on every page. Removing in depth explanations is not the answer, especially not if those explanations are still fairly simplistic. I have attempted to address your concerns by modifying the originally quoted material to clarify the differences in respiration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roborodent (talk • contribs) 15:58, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed edits to this page

It looks like the discussion and editing of this page has been dormant for a long time but still has some outstanding issues. It is overall poorly written and cited and I would like to fix it up a bit. I was initially wondering if this should be a disambiguation page since there are already pages for "Diabetic Ketoacidosis," "Alcoholic Ketoacidosis" and "Ketosis," however I think there is value in keeping this page to explain the differences. Pattkait (talk) 14:10, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

I have rewritten the "Causes," "Pathophysiology" and lead sections and added new references. I would like to add headers about vulnerable populations and signs and symptoms as well. Comments, suggestions, revisions welcome

Pattkait (talk) 12:24, 8 October 2019 (UTC)