Talk:Braised sauerkraut
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| This article was nominated for deletion on 3 May 2013. The result of the discussion was keep. |
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Merge with Sauerkraut?
[edit]This appears to be a local variation on Sauerkraut - merge with that article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.34.212 (talk) 18:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- Formally suggesting merge. Sslaxx (talk) 17:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree. In every home where I have been served what the family called "kapusta", it was not merely sauerkraut. They considered sauerkraut the primary ingredient in kapusta, but until the mushrooms and/or bacon and whatever else was added, it was not kapusta. This would be akin to merging sandwich into bread, or even more obviously, kimchi into cabbage. Unschool 19:35, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Disagree as well, per what unschool has said.--Ender The Xenocide | ( Talk | Contribs) 03:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- I disagree also. It sould not be merged with sauerkraut. Kapusta is not a local variation on sauerkraut. The actual translation of the word kapusta is cabbage. In my family, we make a soup or stew that we call kapusta with cabbage, beans, potatoes, kielbasa, cider vinegar, s&p. Our version does not have any sauerkraut in it. Our polish recipes are handed down from my great grandparents, Bapcia and Dziadziu, who came to the US from Poland. Cheryl Joy 1 (talk 12:31, 8 August 2009 (UTC))
- Disagree as well, per what unschool has said.--Ender The Xenocide | ( Talk | Contribs) 03:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- I disagree. In every home where I have been served what the family called "kapusta", it was not merely sauerkraut. They considered sauerkraut the primary ingredient in kapusta, but until the mushrooms and/or bacon and whatever else was added, it was not kapusta. This would be akin to merging sandwich into bread, or even more obviously, kimchi into cabbage. Unschool 19:35, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
- Formally suggesting merge. Sslaxx (talk) 17:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
What is this article about, really?
[edit]On pl wiki, kapusta kiszona is interwikid to Sauerkrau. In Poland, kapusta kiszona is, well, pure pickled cabbage. It can be mixed with other veggies (carrots and recently pineapple mixes are popular), but at least for me, neither is "pure" kapusta kiszona. Pl wiki clearly states that kiszona kapusta is pickled cabbage (sauerkraut), nothing more and nothing less. On a sidenote, kapusta is cabbage. I am not aware of any Polish dish that is named kapusta; other then pure cabbage, as in - a vegetable.
With all due respect to the opposing comments, I think you are all used to second+ generation of this dish in USA or other countries, and such cuisine and the names are subject to numerous mutations (I lived 8 years in Pittsburgh, and some stuff that passes there for Polish I nor anyone else in Poland I know ever heard of :D). It is used as an ingredient in some other dishes, but should not be confused with them.
Looking at the refs used here, [1], clearly agrees with me: "Kapusta (sauerkraut)". Granted, the second ref ([2]) does give a recipe for something called kapusta using sauerkraut as one of a number of ingredients, but as far as I am concerned, this "kapusta" is some Polish-American dish of as of now unproven notability. As such, upon further considerations, I no longer consider this article in need of merger, as it seems to discuss something else then kapusta kiszona. I do, however, how now serious doubts about its notability. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:46, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Merge to Sauerkraut
[edit]The last AfD had half the participants (and I'll note, both were Polish) suggesting this should be merged to Sauerkraut. I still do not believe this dish has any separate notability. It is simply steamed Sauerkraut, a very minor variation that does not satisfy independent notability. Would there be any objections to merging it to Sauerkraut#Regional_varieties? I propose the following sentence: "One Polish variety (also popular among Polish-Americans) of braised or stewed Sauerkraut is known as kapusta kiszona duszona". I will note that nothing else in this article discusses this variety specifically (and Wikipedia is not a cookbook so we do not list all dishes, only those which pass WP:GNG). Oh, and for the record: kapusta=cabbage, kapusta kiszona=Sauerkraut, duszona=braised. Pl wiki about Sauerkraut does not even mention the braised dish variety. Ping participants of the last AfD: User:Crunch, User:Candleabracadabra, User:Kpalion, User:Cirt. Also ping participants of the last merge discussion: User:Unschool, User:JulianDelphiki, User:Sslaxx, User:Cheryl Joy 1. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:35, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
- Alternative: merge with two other articles. I know this kind of dish from Ukraine, and it is apparently also known in some other Post-Soviet countries (or one should say Post-Russian Empire because the dishes probaly existed before the Russian Revolution). See the picture from Latvia. There it is known as "stewed cabbage" (Russian: тушёная капуста). It is made not necessarily from sauerkraut, but can be a mixture of fresh cabbage with sauerkraut or even only fresh cabbage soured with lemon juice / citric acid. The dish was also adopted from Russia / Ukraine by Turkey, where it is known as Kapuska (word adopted from Russian "kapusta"). A similar dish exists also in Serbia: Wedding cabbage (svadbarski kupus). So I propose a new article: Stewed cabbage, summarising such dishes from different countries, as they are related to each other, and thus to keep it separate from Sauerkraut and Cabbage articles. --Off-shell (talk) 21:08, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
- I concur with Off-shell. It will be better to combine the several stubs into one bigger article. — Kpalion(talk) 16:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
- Concur. They're all essentially variants on the same dish: that which is known as sauerkraut in English. Sauerkraut is a bit of a strange one as, technically, it's the actual pickled cabbage made throughout Europe. At the heart of it, however, it's used as the WP:COMMONNAME for a dish also eaten in other parts of Central Europe and Eastern Europe. Just go to any Oktoberfest and see whether you don't recognise the stuff as being substantively different it in its fatty pork or sausage form. Nevertheless, "sauerkraut" is the basic pickled cabbage, so "stewed cabbage" makes the best WP:COMMONSENSE title. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:33, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
- I concur with Off-shell. It will be better to combine the several stubs into one bigger article. — Kpalion(talk) 16:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
"Kapusta" redirect - could be better if it were removed
[edit]The "kapusta" noun simply refers to "cabbage" in Slavic languages, and not the dish.
- The Robert Strybel's claim it's just "kapusta" smells like a "let me tell about your country" or a note made in a moment of excitement, that went like "ah, so they refer to Zamazana Kapusta simply as "kapusta", neat!"... 81.89.66.133 (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2023 (UTC)