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Kallen/Karen

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Her birth name is Karen Kōzuki (紅月カレン, Kōzuki Karen?)

As OST 2 booklet states, it's Kallen Stadtfeld / Kallen Kouzuki.

--Bailaora (talk) 23:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree with your intent, but not everyone here is smart enough to consider that she may have had a Britannian given name from birth and seem to think that that is impossible. I suspect this will not do a thing to change people's minds. Hell, I've seen people assume Kallen is Engrish. That's stupid, in reality Kallen is a Swedish surname and Code Geass seems to have a thing for using surnames (Rivalz, Diethard, Nunnally) as given names. --Robtf (talk) 12:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I changed it. There was a debate on the name Karen/Kallen on Karen's page. Most, if not all, references and sources pointed to the use of Kallen so I ended up redirecting Karen to Kallen and moved everything here. With the official release using Kallen, there's really no use to cite Karen at all in the article, unless it appears. If not, then it's bust. Just a heads up for anyone still on the fence about the naming. Fox816 (talk) 22:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay... This proves that we Americans are idiots. Her name is obviously Karen (not Kallen). The only reason it was pronounced in the Japanese version with and 'L' is because the R makes an L sound in the Japanese language. Not very many of them can pronounce it right. I don't now how it was pronounced the the English version but my guess is that they used 'LL' because they are idiots like the rest of us.
It's a great show and I believe that these dumb mistakes subtract from it greatness. Much like how in Gunslinger Girl FunAmation bashed Franca's name and pronounced it Flanca. (Yet they pronounced Franco's name correctly. IDIOTS!) (Visitor) 23:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Read this, bottom right side. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 22:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's pronounced and spelled Kallen in every version I've seen of the show (including several written entries on the show itself), so regardless of whether it was originally supposed to be Karen (and thus a victim of flied lice syndrome), it is now officially Kallen in all languages. And as for whether to change it during translation, they probably thought she should have a more interesting name than Karen. No idiocy needed. Westrim (talk) 02:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, if you listen carefully to the Japanese version you can hear that the name has a slight "R" sound to it. At the end of episode 25 Season 1 is the perfect example. Either way I too would agree that it should be Karen but it is much to late for anything to be done I guess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.183.249 (talk) 17:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We know. I noted that in my last post. I'm no linguist, but as I understand it, the sounds for L and R are very close in Japanese, like the English C and K. If you not the name pronunciation segments in entries on the character list, names like Lelouch, if translated into Japanese and then back, are rendered as Rurushu phonetically. That doesn't make it the correct spelling.Westrim (talk) 18:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the only reason the IP heard it with an R sound is because they were trying to hear it. Its obvious that its pronounced with a L sound. You can hear differences. Just watch a Japanese episode of One Piece and listen to them say Zoro's name. They pronounce it with the R sound. Gune (talk) 06:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Does it matter whether a viewer think he/she hears a slight "R" sound in the Japaense or not? Maybe we can try looking at Lelouch's phone when Kallen calls him. In episode 11 for example, when Lelouch was in the cave with C.C. It was obvious that the incoming call was from "Kallen", not "Karen". Just because you think the name is "supposed to be Karen" does not mean the original Japanese producers want her to be Karen. It's just like telling someone called Catherine "Your name is supposed to be Katherine". Also, part of this confusion might have come out of romanization of the Japanese language - they romanize all the "L" you hear to "R", but it's still pronounced as "L" most of the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.103.142.207 (talk) 08:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I must agree with Trust not the penguin, we are idiots. What were the translators thinking? I watch the original Japanese anime (with subs of course) and throughout the whole first season they call her Karen, and then about episode...I think 16 or 19, they start putting Kallen instead. Then they switched back near episode 23-25. Then they just alternated back and forth throughout R2. Ok people, if you listen closely enough, you can here them say Karen! Like Trust not the penguin said, they have trouble enunciating the r in her name. Plus, if you go and google it, you can get sites that have Karen on one and Kallen on the other. And it wouldn't really matter much if it was Karen or Kallen if she was a minor character like Rivalz or Tamaki. All the sources point towords Kallen because all the sources are probly talking about the English version. The only reason people are still so stubborn to think that its Kallen is obviously because they hear Kallen in the English version and think that the translators are god and know everything. Though I think Tohdoh should be Toudoh, at least they sound the same...I guess I can do what that guy that above me said and look at that scene in the anime...Oh, I just thought of something. If you guys still won't change the name, why not put a link so if someone types in Karen, it will at least show a link to Kallen's page. That would prevent some confusion...

Otaku Thief (talk) 15:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Otaku Thief[reply]

You need to rewatch the entire series. Not once did they ever call her Karen. All the sources point to the correct version which is Kallen. They are not about the dub at all. There is no confusion because BOTH versions use Kallen. Gune (talk) 10:44, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About this. Her name is Kallen because, as said above, Lelouch receives a call from her and his phone says "Kallen" on it. Regardless of where the problem really lies, in the Japanese language, there is no 'r' or 'l' sound but when romanizing it, those are the closest two sounds to those used in their language. It is a slight flap of the tongue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.171.56.9 (talk) 01:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From Kallen Kōzuki to Kallen Stadtfeld

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I've just realize something, can't we change the name of the article from Kallen Kōzuki to Kallen Stadtfeld? because she did started the name as Kallen Stadtfeld & we didn't know of her birth name since episode 19 of season one. Also they have been a couple of images that refer to her as Kallen Stadtfeld since she did started with that name. What do you think? because I think the name should be changed back with that. - SilentmanX (talk) 00:30, 01 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah
Previous mover thought that it was because Kallen Kozuki is her "real name". Meanwhile, the Kallen character page in the publisher site identifies her as Stadtfeld. What does Wikipedia say about naming conventions on anime characters? --Aeon17x (talk) 02:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, according to the WP:MoS for anime and manga-related articles, it says we should use the official English titles. If there are multiple possible titles, we go by the best known title.

Google search results for her two most common names:

Google groups results:

They are both used almost always together when discussing her character in the internet. There are only about 200 results where only Stadtfeld or only Kōzuki was mentioned.

Even then overall usage of Stadtfeld is still over three times than that of Kōzuki.

I suppose we can still introduce the article main text with her real name "Kallen Kōzuki", however since she is indeed more commonly known by her school name I believe it is more prudent to name the actual article as "Kallen Stadtfeld". --Aeon17x (talk) 10:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't be much trouble to change it back. Just make sure to do them all. I changed it in the first place since the articles weren't consistent on picking a name. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 03:37, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One thing worth mentioning is that Kouzuki Karen can be written in both order(start with family name or given name), in both Kallen/Karen, in both ō/ou, making the above results might not correctly reflect the whole situation. C933103 (talk) 20:48, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Real name madness

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Reading back to the first topic, I just realized: we might have been spelling her real name wrong all along.

In the OST booklet posted in that discussion, she is identified as Kallen Stadtfeld (Kallen Kouzuki). In the publisher's official site for Code Geass R2, she is also called Kallen Kouzuki.

What was our source again for calling her Kallen Kōzuki in the first place? --Aeon17x (talk) 02:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the same reason other Japanese names have accented vowels. It denotes the long vowel sounds as "ou" does. There is nothing wrong with it. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 22:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
True, they sound similar, and for every other name they'll probably be transliterated the same way. But we've yet to see published materials that spell it as Kōzuki. --Aeon17x (talk) 23:14, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Because published materials almost never use long vowels because they're special characters. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 03:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that makes it harder to type. If we go with Kōzuki on the other hand, that's placing more credit on the transliteration than what's actually written on the materials. As much as possible we should avoid the former: it'll be like the Karen/Kallen conflict all over again, there are opposing sides that depend on their interpretation of what they hear/see instead of what's published.
See Sousuke Sagara: it's transliterated as Sōsuke, yet his proper name in English is still Sousuke Sagara as that's how it is on the published materials. --Aeon17x (talk) 03:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Change it if you want then. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 09:15, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Importance

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She's the second most important character in the story, acting as a romantic interest to Lelouch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.239.66 (talk) 21:15, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, she was not, but her fans was so agressive so it is meaningless to even try to talk to them about it.
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